Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
So, I was staring at the Raleigh frame I got from last year's Xmas Disastering, and figured, aside from getting it powdercoated, I'd look into maybe making it a portable bike. And I'd like to explore the DIY route. I've done a *little* bit of brazing, but for non-bike applications, and that was a while back. What's the cost for a base set of couplers?
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Andrew_Squirrel
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:36 pm
Joined: 01 Mar 2010Posts: 2098Location: Greenwood
I don't think you can even buy the S&S couplers unless you are an approved vendor. Not sure about other options
rory
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:46 pm
Joined: 13 Sep 2010Posts: 158
joe and brazing.
you cant buy s&s couplers, unless you're a vendor. the better route would be to try and copy the ritchey break away system. also, look at how herse did his demountable bikes.
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:06 pm
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
I figured I've got a free frame that is decent, some spare time, and a little bit of can-do attitude, might as well break some stuff and try to fix it up :)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Hmmm. You know, I notice that all the bike photos with the Ritchey system are welded joins, not lugged. the bike I've got is lugged, so cutting a diagonal through the seat tube, and even that join down at the base of the downtube, would likely not be a good idea.
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rory
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:30 pm
Joined: 13 Sep 2010Posts: 158
because installing the s&s couplers would be less damaging to the frame.
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:33 pm
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Well, I will concede that cutting up a bike frame is going to mess with it a bit :).
My reasoning is that with the S&S, the trauma to the frame will be highly localized to just the break, but if I have to cut through a lug, I risk affecting the integrity of not just one tube, but 4 (for the seatpost). Granted, the break at the base of the downtube would be roughly equal regardless of S&S or Ritchey in terms of risk of weakening the bike.
One other thing I noticed is that the seatstays on the Breakaway bikes are mounted lower on the seat tube than with the Raleigh I've got - they're joined at the height of the top tube, not below it like with the Breakaway. I'd risk having to cut into those as well if I went with that break like with a Ritchey.
Did find a photo of a tandem with the Ritchey setup, so I could just use two clamps, one on the top tube fore of the seat tube, and one on the downtube.
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langston
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:47 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
for the cost and clusterfuck of getting your Raleigh cut and S&S'd, you'll probably be able to find a frame already done for you.
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derrickito
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:52 pm
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i would happily cut a bike in half for any of you people
rory
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:54 pm
Joined: 13 Sep 2010Posts: 158
doing the ritchey break away isnt as simple as the s&s, but it's doable since YOU CAN'T BUY THE S & S COUPLERS. the only way you could obtain the couplers is to buy an existing frame with the couplers, hack them off, and then use them. conversely, the break away system is lower cost hack.
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:19 pm
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Just because I can't get parts, or knowledge, or experience, has never stopped me from thinking up hare-brained schemes.
But if I can avoid cutting the seat tube, the Ritchey setup is definitely an option that can be done more quickly. And it looks like there is a way to do it without the seat tube being involved, so next step's gonna see what the costs are for the appropriately sized clamps.
And hey, if out of the shiny blue sky a pair of S&S couplers just happen to fall into my lap, that'd be nice. While I've seen pricing to retrofit from bike shops, including labor and retail markup, I'd be curious to see what the cost pricing is on 'em.
I'm curious why they don't just offer them to amateur builders. Are they worried about litigation? One would assume that they would not be held liable for a poor install job on a bike - you don't see Ford getting sued because a car nut wrecked his custom car.
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Andrew_Squirrel
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:34 pm
Joined: 01 Mar 2010Posts: 2098Location: Greenwood
They may be more worried about reputation if there is a smattering of S&S coupler fail photos strewn across the internet. Also, I think they are a fairly small operation with high quality / low output (and I'm assuming high cost) that wants to keep it that way. I'm mostly pulling this out of my ass.
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:38 pm
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
I can't disagree with that entirely. It could also be a way of keeping tabs on their stuff.
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Bo Ttorff
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:47 pm
GO SEAHAWKS!! 12 for LYFEJoined: 20 Jul 2011Posts: 3092Location: King County
don't be derailed by kermudgens on the thread Joe. Fuck if you want to cut a free frame in half to try and learn some new shit along the way then fuckin' do it, I mean, how else are you going to learn? Even if it turns out to be a catastrophe. Talk to Douglas he works at a shop and may have a way to obtain a set.
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:06 pm
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Surprisingly enough, cutting the frame accurately is not the hard part - I've got access to a pretty sweet cutting saw at that can cut a good line. I've even got a MAPP torch at home, and the brazing part doesn't worry me. The Ritchey-esque clamps may be pretty doable, assuming I can get flanged sleeves that can be brazed on to the tubing. If it's gonna involve welding, that may not be a viable option.
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haulincolin
Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:41 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 271Location: at work
Andrew_Squirrel wrote:
They may be more worried about reputation if there is a smattering of S&S coupler fail photos strewn across the internet. Also, I think they are a fairly small operation with high quality / low output (and I'm assuming high cost) that wants to keep it that way. I'm mostly pulling this out of my ass.
S&S Machine is indeed a smallish machine shop. They have some very sophisticated equipment churning out those couplers, but I think it's a small part of their overall business.
Joe, I've thought a lot about a cheap-ass way to make a coupled bike, and I think you should use pipe unions. Seriously. You can get unthreaded ones that are made to be welded into place. You can even get stainless ones, but they're pretty expensive as far as pipe fittings go. I will even help you do it since I want to see this happen. Also, you'd have to carry around a big ol crescent wrench to operate them.
Heck, I'm not opposed to that. Since I can't weld, I wasn't originally thinking of that, but if you're willing to lend a hand on that, I think that would be awesome.
For cable runs, we could probably drill a couple holes through the flange lips, or maybe notch 'em.
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haulincolin
Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:53 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 271Location: at work
Unfortunately, McMaster-Carr URLs don't link to anything more specific than the general catagory, so I can't see what you're looking at there. However, it sounds like you're talking about flanges. I'm talking about unions.
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:59 pm
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Ah. Hmm. Either one works, from the looks of it. The union may be more compact than the flanges, so cabling may work around it easier.
And for $16 a pop, that's definitely affordable.
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Alex
Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:24 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006Posts: 3128Location: Roosevelt
The easiest way for amateurs to get S&S couplers is to buy a broken frame that includes the couplers, remove them from the old frame and install them into the new. It doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen.
Brazing a S&S coupler is no harder than brazing any other stainless lug. It just takes practice. A MAPP/air torch is not ideal, but could be pressed into service. A oxy/fuel torch (fuel could be propane, MAPP, acetylene, or almost anything else) works great.
The Ritchey system is brazed, not welded, but it isn't designed for retrofits. S&S can be retrofit or installed new.
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:38 pm
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Hmm. My MAPP torch is an oxy/MAPP one - I got it originally to work on some borosilicate glass projects a few years ago. Shiny blooooo flame...
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