Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Good work gumshoes!
_________________ HIS NAME IS EDMUND
Bo Ttorff
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:12 pm
GO SEAHAWKS!! 12 for LYFEJoined: 20 Jul 2011Posts: 3092Location: King County
karadactyl wrote:
DEAR JOE:
I just spent way too much time looking at properties for sale in the city and I am curious about something... if one were to purchase an empty lot that is "ready-to-build" in the city of Seattle, could one live in a tent on said property and slowly but surely build a house? Assuming the house was built to code and all that boring stuff... I just want to know if I could take my sweet ass time, since I don't know how to build houses yet.
sub-question - am I correct in assuming that the property taxes go up each year based on how much structure (i.e., "improvement") is done to the lot?
If this is your strategy my initial approach would be to build yourself a shed less than 120 sqft, (permit not required) dig yourself a pit toilet and set up some sort of rain catchment system for gray water.
Remember that every permit once opened comes with a timeline to build and inspection is required. So taking your sweet time is only as sweet as your permit allows.
While your neighbors might not like you much, as long as you own the land and pay your property taxes your plan should play.
_________________ -housed white guy
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:12 pm
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Bo Ttorff wrote:
karadactyl wrote:
DEAR JOE:
I just spent way too much time looking at properties for sale in the city and I am curious about something... if one were to purchase an empty lot that is "ready-to-build" in the city of Seattle, could one live in a tent on said property and slowly but surely build a house? Assuming the house was built to code and all that boring stuff... I just want to know if I could take my sweet ass time, since I don't know how to build houses yet.
sub-question - am I correct in assuming that the property taxes go up each year based on how much structure (i.e., "improvement") is done to the lot?
If this is your strategy my initial approach would be to build yourself a shed less than 120 sqft, (permit not required) dig yourself a pit toilet and set up some sort of rain catchment system for gray water.
Remember that every permit once opened comes with a timeline to build and inspection is required. So taking your sweet time is only as sweet as your permit allows.
While your neighbors might not like you much, as long as you own the land and pay your property taxes your plan should play.
Strangely, my landlord said almost exactly the same thing. If you build a structure with a toilet on your property, that somehow classifies it as a dwelling, and after that you can pretty much do whatever the hell you want on the property if you're DIY, without needing permits, or something like that.
_________________ HIS NAME IS EDMUND
Chip McShoulder
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:31 pm
dog licking ice cream coneJoined: 11 Aug 2008Posts: 3022Location: Rainbow Road
caustic meatloaf wrote:
Bo Ttorff wrote:
karadactyl wrote:
DEAR JOE:
I just spent way too much time looking at properties for sale in the city and I am curious about something... if one were to purchase an empty lot that is "ready-to-build" in the city of Seattle, could one live in a tent on said property and slowly but surely build a house? Assuming the house was built to code and all that boring stuff... I just want to know if I could take my sweet ass time, since I don't know how to build houses yet.
sub-question - am I correct in assuming that the property taxes go up each year based on how much structure (i.e., "improvement") is done to the lot?
If this is your strategy my initial approach would be to build yourself a shed less than 120 sqft, (permit not required) dig yourself a pit toilet and set up some sort of rain catchment system for gray water.
Remember that every permit once opened comes with a timeline to build and inspection is required. So taking your sweet time is only as sweet as your permit allows.
While your neighbors might not like you much, as long as you own the land and pay your property taxes your plan should play.
Strangely, my landlord said almost exactly the same thing. If you build a structure with a toilet on your property, that somehow classifies it as a dwelling, and after that you can pretty much do whatever the hell you want on the property if you're DIY, without needing permits, or something like that.
My landlord said something similar, though he added that after the shed is built, setting up a cat daycare on the rest of the lot is another canonical next move.
My landlord said something similar, though he added that after the shed is built, setting up a cat daycare on the rest of the lot is another canonical next move.
THAT WAS MY REAL DREAM ALL ALONG!
TorreyK
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:44 pm
Joined: 02 Sep 2009Posts: 1116Location: White Center/Burien
Dear Joe,
The movie Hitman with Timothy Olyphant, based on the videogame Hitman utilizes stock footage from the flashback scene in Jessica Alba's Dark Angel series. Is there any legitimate relationship between the story lines, or was this just an excuse to use stock footage of kids with neck tattoos in the making of a made-for-DVD movie?
yours truly,
Also not riding bikes on a Thursday night.
_________________ Time to go.
Chip McShoulder
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:07 am
dog licking ice cream coneJoined: 11 Aug 2008Posts: 3022Location: Rainbow Road
Dear Joe,
What is wrong with my stereo? The low end sounds bad and distorted.
The signal runs from the computer to a USB DAC transmitter, through 3 feet of air to the DAC receiver, from there to an amplifier, from there to regular stereo speakers.
For the most part, I keep the volume settings on the computer (both in windows, and the application (chrome/netflix or vlc)) LOW, and turn the amp up (which helps the problem somewhat, but not entirely).
Recently, I took a set of computer speakers (with their own volume setting, something like this) and plugged them into the headphone jack on the amplifier.
If I keep the amplifier volume high, and computer speaker volume low (so, in the end, volume is about the same level as it was with the stereo speakers), the distortion is still present (basically the same). If I turn down the amplifier, and crank up the speakers, the distortion is mostly gone.
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
Chip McShoulder wrote:
Dear Joe,
What is wrong with my stereo? The low end sounds bad and distorted.
The signal runs from the computer to a USB DAC transmitter, through 3 feet of air to the DAC receiver, from there to an amplifier, from there to regular stereo speakers.
For the most part, I keep the volume settings on the computer (both in windows, and the application (chrome/netflix or vlc)) LOW, and turn the amp up (which helps the problem somewhat, but not entirely).
Recently, I took a set of computer speakers (with their own volume setting, something like this) and plugged them into the headphone jack on the amplifier.
If I keep the amplifier volume high, and computer speaker volume low (so, in the end, volume is about the same level as it was with the stereo speakers), the distortion is still present (basically the same). If I turn down the amplifier, and crank up the speakers, the distortion is mostly gone.
What is broken?
I'm going to wait for Joe to opine, but I'm guessing it's the DAC.
_________________ riders wanted for hazardous journey. Small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in case of success.
Chip McShoulder
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:25 am
dog licking ice cream coneJoined: 11 Aug 2008Posts: 3022Location: Rainbow Road
Also Dear Joe,
How bad is Hroniss Grasu's knee injury, and will he be back in time for the PAC-12 championship?
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Chip McShoulder wrote:
Dear Joe,
What is wrong with my stereo? The low end sounds bad and distorted.
The signal runs from the computer to a USB DAC transmitter, through 3 feet of air to the DAC receiver, from there to an amplifier, from there to regular stereo speakers.
For the most part, I keep the volume settings on the computer (both in windows, and the application (chrome/netflix or vlc)) LOW, and turn the amp up (which helps the problem somewhat, but not entirely).
Recently, I took a set of computer speakers (with their own volume setting, something like this) and plugged them into the headphone jack on the amplifier.
If I keep the amplifier volume high, and computer speaker volume low (so, in the end, volume is about the same level as it was with the stereo speakers), the distortion is still present (basically the same). If I turn down the amplifier, and crank up the speakers, the distortion is mostly gone.
What is broken?
Well, we know from your test by using a different set of speakers that the distortion is still present, so that rules out damage to your existing speakers. However, there are a lot of other things to test out.
You've got your amp which may or may not be suspect, your DAC, and your PC's audio output in general.
So, Perform these steps to which, if any, eliminate the distortion.
1)Direct line out from PC to amp
2)Direct line out from PC to new set of powered speakers
3)Direct line out from DAC to new speakers
4)Also, test out the DAC TX/RX with a separate audio source if possible, to see if you can recreate the distortion using a different PC or other device with audio on it for testing.
I'd suggest, for ease of diagnosis, you download some sinusoidal audio loops off the 'net of various frequencies. Really helps to nail down which freqs are being distorted.
What brand/model of DAC TX/RX do you have? I get the hunch that that may be the root of the cause, but have no evidence to support my hunch.
edit: just re-read what you got, and it sounds like you have a line out from the PC going to an amp, and then to the powered speakers (which also have an integrated amp).
You could very well be hearing clipping brought upon feeding in a signal to the speakers that is more powerful than the headroom that the amp in your powered speakers can supply - hence the distortion.
Last edited by caustic meatloaf on Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:33 pm; edited 2 times in total _________________ HIS NAME IS EDMUND
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:31 pm
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Chip McShoulder wrote:
Also Dear Joe,
How bad is Hroniss Grasu's knee injury, and will he be back in time for the PAC-12 championship?
Hate to say it, but my money's on his season, and possibly his football career, being over.
_________________ HIS NAME IS EDMUND
Chip McShoulder
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:47 pm
dog licking ice cream coneJoined: 11 Aug 2008Posts: 3022Location: Rainbow Road
Thanks! I'll try the isolations you suggest, and get back, but here's the relevant info in the meantime:
the DAC is a NAD DAC 1, the amp is a Luxman A-491, the stereo speakers are Celestions (couldn't find a model number on them).
Currently, everything is still going from the PC through the DAC (no direct line out yet). Yes, the PC speakers are powered, and it makes sense to me that there would be distortion if the signal is too strong as it comes to the speakers (thus why I don't completely trust that the problem isn't the stereo speakers).
Also, I don't think I have a way to do
3)Direct line out from DAC to new speakers
as the DAC RX is coax-out, and the computer speakers are a 3.5mm input jack (I'm using a 3.5 to 1/4" thinger to hook to phone jack on amp).
EDIT: well, I guess I could go buy a thing to do 3), but it's not something I have at home already.
Last edited by Chip McShoulder on Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total _________________ Free iPad 2 - As seen on CNN!
Chip McShoulder
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:48 pm
dog licking ice cream coneJoined: 11 Aug 2008Posts: 3022Location: Rainbow Road
caustic meatloaf wrote:
Chip McShoulder wrote:
Also Dear Joe,
How bad is Hroniss Grasu's knee injury, and will he be back in time for the PAC-12 championship?
Hate to say it, but my money's on his season, and possibly his soccer career, being over.
dog licking ice cream coneJoined: 11 Aug 2008Posts: 3022Location: Rainbow Road
Chip McShoulder wrote:
Thanks! I'll try the isolations you suggest, and get back, but here's the relevant info in the meantime:
the DAC is a NAD DAC 1, the amp is a Luxman A-491, the stereo speakers are Celestions (couldn't find a model number on them).
Currently, everything is still going from the PC through the DAC (no direct line out yet). Yes, the PC speakers are powered, and it makes sense to me that there would be distortion if the signal is too strong as it comes to the speakers (thus why I don't completely trust that the problem isn't the stereo speakers).
Also, I don't think I have a way to do
3)Direct line out from DAC to new speakers
as the DAC RX is coax-out, and the computer speakers are a 3.5mm input jack (I'm using a 3.5 to 1/4" thinger to hook to phone jack on amp).
EDIT: well, I guess I could go buy a thing to do 3), but it's not something I have at home already.
Some preliminary fucking around: I get distortion w/ stereo speakers at 50, 100, 150, 261 Hz, some (but less, I think) at 440, gone by 520. Not really hearing it on the computer speakers (on hi/low or low/high amp/speaker volume settings)
EDIT: As you may note, I failed to reproduce the distortion through the computer speakers. I think what happened here is that I failed to realize until these recent tests that plugging in the computer speakers through the headphone jack DOESN'T cut the signal to the stereo speakers, and that yesterday I was just still hearing that distortion until the volume on amp was lowered (and computer speaker volume went up to compensate). Using the speaker selector switch on the amp to turn the stereo speakers off reveals a nice clean sine wave coming through the computer speakers.
So maybe pointing to the stereo speakers more now?
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
oooh, yeah, that's pointing more towards speakers unfortunately. For a lot of speakers, they fail on the low-end first due to the bass frequencies requiring more displacement from the woofers. Moving parts mean wear and tear, and over time your woofer can become detached from the speaker box by wearing out the springy rim, resulting in distortion.
My bet is that if you bumped some really loud dubstep for, oh, 10-15 minutes, you'd pretty much finish the wear out process on those speakers.
_________________ HIS NAME IS EDMUND
Chip McShoulder
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:57 pm
dog licking ice cream coneJoined: 11 Aug 2008Posts: 3022Location: Rainbow Road
caustic meatloaf wrote:
oooh, yeah, that's pointing more towards speakers unfortunately. For a lot of speakers, they fail on the low-end first due to the bass frequencies requiring more displacement from the woofers. Moving parts mean wear and tear, and over time your woofer can become detached from the speaker box by wearing out the springy rim, resulting in distortion.
My bet is that if you bumped some really loud dubstep for, oh, 10-15 minutes, you'd pretty much finish the wear out process on those speakers.
I don't recall ever doing that, but who knows. So what are my options here? Fix or replace?
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Chip McShoulder wrote:
caustic meatloaf wrote:
oooh, yeah, that's pointing more towards speakers unfortunately. For a lot of speakers, they fail on the low-end first due to the bass frequencies requiring more displacement from the woofers. Moving parts mean wear and tear, and over time your woofer can become detached from the speaker box by wearing out the springy rim, resulting in distortion.
My bet is that if you bumped some really loud dubstep for, oh, 10-15 minutes, you'd pretty much finish the wear out process on those speakers.
I don't recall ever doing that, but who knows. So what are my options here? Fix or replace?
Honestly, head over to Mouser or Parts Express and buy some replacement drivers of the same size. Probably $50 for a pair, and about half an hour of time.
Now, if your speakers were less than $50 for the pair roll over to CL and buy a net set. Be sure to get Technics of Wharfdale or some other shitty 80s brand.
_________________ HIS NAME IS EDMUND
Chip McShoulder
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:14 am
dog licking ice cream coneJoined: 11 Aug 2008Posts: 3022Location: Rainbow Road
caustic meatloaf wrote:
Chip McShoulder wrote:
caustic meatloaf wrote:
oooh, yeah, that's pointing more towards speakers unfortunately. For a lot of speakers, they fail on the low-end first due to the bass frequencies requiring more displacement from the woofers. Moving parts mean wear and tear, and over time your woofer can become detached from the speaker box by wearing out the springy rim, resulting in distortion.
My bet is that if you bumped some really loud dubstep for, oh, 10-15 minutes, you'd pretty much finish the wear out process on those speakers.
I don't recall ever doing that, but who knows. So what are my options here? Fix or replace?
Honestly, head over to Mouser or Parts Express and buy some replacement drivers of the same size. Probably $50 for a pair, and about half an hour of time.
Now, if your speakers were less than $50 for the pair roll over to CL and buy a net set. Be sure to get Technics of Wharfdale or some other shitty 80s brand.
yeah, pretty sure they were more than $50. If I can't find a Mouse Parts Express in town, is there an internet store you recommend?
Thanks again for all the help, A====, love asking questions here.
Dear Joe,
What are combined and separated sewers and is there a difference in the flora and fauna that can live in each?
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:38 am
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Chip McShoulder wrote:
caustic meatloaf wrote:
Chip McShoulder wrote:
caustic meatloaf wrote:
oooh, yeah, that's pointing more towards speakers unfortunately. For a lot of speakers, they fail on the low-end first due to the bass frequencies requiring more displacement from the woofers. Moving parts mean wear and tear, and over time your woofer can become detached from the speaker box by wearing out the springy rim, resulting in distortion.
My bet is that if you bumped some really loud dubstep for, oh, 10-15 minutes, you'd pretty much finish the wear out process on those speakers.
I don't recall ever doing that, but who knows. So what are my options here? Fix or replace?
Honestly, head over to Mouser or Parts Express and buy some replacement drivers of the same size. Probably $50 for a pair, and about half an hour of time.
Now, if your speakers were less than $50 for the pair roll over to CL and buy a net set. Be sure to get Technics of Wharfdale or some other shitty 80s brand.
yeah, pretty sure they were more than $50. If I can't find a Mouse Parts Express in town, is there an internet store you recommend?
Thanks again for all the help, A====, love asking questions here.
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
ba3bous wrote:
Dear Joe,
What are combined and separated sewers and is there a difference in the flora and fauna that can live in each?
A great question! A combined sewer system uses the same drainage ways for both stormwater runoff from streets and sewer expulsion from private and public buildings. A separate system has a dedicated drainage system for stormwater, and one for sewer.
With a separate sewage system, stormwater runoff is often drained directly to local waterways or the nearby ocean without treatment, and the sewage system is diverted to processing and treatment before it's drained. A famous example would be the Brightwater Sewage Treatment plant.
Regarding the local flora and fauna in the systems, separated sewage will have vastly different flora and fauna. In this case, stormwater will have an overall lower count of H. Pylori and E. Coli populations due to the source of the water being generally cleaner than people's assholes, and in places with a lot of rainfall, the stormwater is generally rather clean - hence why it can be directly drained into local waterways with minimal negative effect.
Waste sewage will have significantly higher bacterilogical populations, as well as greater algae due to increased nutrient concentration from all the waste products, and decomposing food from drains, etc. This sewage *must* be sent to a treatment plant where the bulk of the water is separated through filtration and some chemical processing before being released into the local waterways.
_________________ HIS NAME IS EDMUND
Drain
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:39 am
Joined: 22 Feb 2010Posts: 902Location: Seattle
Dear Joe,
How can I modify people's behavior such that they stop using the Oxford comma? My clout as a wiki editor only goes so far.
_________________ - Ian
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:56 am
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Drain wrote:
Dear Joe,
How can I modify people's behavior such that they stop using the Oxford comma? My clout as a wiki editor only goes so far.
BY SHUTTING YOUR WHORE MOUTH THE OXFORD COMMA IS THE BEST THING FOR THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE SINCE WE STOLE FRENCH WORDS FROM WILLIAM THE CONQUEROR
_________________ HIS NAME IS EDMUND
J_Dada
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:36 am
Down 2 FUNKJoined: 14 Oct 2012Posts: 1274
Why anyone would not want to see the Oxford comma used is beyond me. Pretty sure the only reason it isn't in style guides is to save characters for news articles.
Google can produce about a million examples of sentences that would benefit from the Oxford comma, because they're absurd without it. Can anyone come up with a sentence that makes less sense because of the Oxford?
axel
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:04 pm
Joined: 15 Feb 2013Posts: 1654Location: St Johns PDX
use the fucking oxford comma.
J_Dada wrote:
Can anyone come up with a sentence that makes less sense because of the Oxford?
only in cases where the sentence didn't make any sense to begin with.
via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma#Unresolved_ambiguity:
The Times once published an unintentionally humorous description of a Peter Ustinov documentary, noting that "highlights of his global tour include encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collector."
This would still be ambiguous if a serial comma were added, as Mandela could then be mistaken for a demigod, although he would be precluded from being a dildo collector.
that last part seems like it was written with Reilly in mind.
_________________ fat rob.
Chip McShoulder
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:18 pm
dog licking ice cream coneJoined: 11 Aug 2008Posts: 3022Location: Rainbow Road
A Stanford student discussing choice of college says:
"I had to decide between Berkeley, a worse school, and here."
It depends on the convention of omitting the comma when unnecessary (i.e. you need to know that student included the comma for a reason other than separating items on a list), but there's no way to make sense of this if you can't determine whether that last comma is serial or parenthetical.
In any event, the real solution is: if there's comma ambiguity, just rewrite your fucking sentence or use semi-colons.
Save it for Facebook bro, this is the Ask Joe thread.
Dear Joe,
What, exactly, is BroTorff's deal?
He really seems to love taking on the role of enforcer. Do you think he would be a good fit for the SPD? I hear they are looking to recruit more candidates that actually live in Seattle. Would it be a good thing or a bad thing if one of our members was cop? Now that Matthew is gone we might benefit from a new law-abidin' type to act as a spokesman/front when things get messy.
Also, the only thing better than an oxford comma is a semicolon.
_________________ -tom
Chip McShoulder
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:53 pm
dog licking ice cream coneJoined: 11 Aug 2008Posts: 3022Location: Rainbow Road
MurpleMan wrote:
Bo Ttorff wrote:
MurpleMan wrote:
Have you ever wondered if the sewer outside your home is combined or separated? Check out this map!
Save it for Facebook bro, this is the Ask Joe thread.
Dear Joe,
What, exactly, is BroTorff's deal?
He really seems to love taking on the role of enforcer. Do you think he would be a good fit for the SPD? I hear they are looking to recruit more candidates that actually live in Seattle. Would it be a good thing or a bad thing if one of our members was cop? Now that Matthew is gone we might benefit from a new law-abidin' type to act as a spokesman/front when things get messy.
Also, the only thing better than an oxford comma is a semicolon.
Dear Joe,
When did .83 get so passive-aggressive? Is it because the TOS is down, and people don't know how to properly resolve beef?
Save it for Facebook bro, this is the Ask Joe thread.
Dear Joe,
What, exactly, is BroTorff's deal?
He really seems to love taking on the role of enforcer. Do you think he would be a good fit for the SPD? I hear they are looking to recruit more candidates that actually live in Seattle. Would it be a good thing or a bad thing if one of our members was cop? Now that Matthew is gone we might benefit from a new law-abidin' type to act as a spokesman/front when things get messy.
Also, the only thing better than an oxford comma is a semicolon.
I'm hoping the passive aggressive rant here is an ode to the sarcasm will not be tolerated section of TOS.
Jeez, make a joke and get called a cop. Reeeeelax bro.
_________________ -housed white guy
J_Dada
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:14 pm
Down 2 FUNKJoined: 14 Oct 2012Posts: 1274
Dear Joe,
Can you help explain the problems I'm having with my smartphone lately? Its an Android GS3 on the T-Mobile network.
When I have an 802.11 connection, calls and texts go through with no problem.
When I'm connected to the cellular network, phone displaying full bars, success rate with making calls or sending texts is approximately 1 out of 9, and people tell me that when they attempt to call me they're sent straight to voicemail. Attempts to connect to internet via 4g are mostly fruitless.
My phone has been beat up quite a bit, dropped, etc. There are multiple cracks in the screen. Is it possible that there is physical damage to the internal radio that picks up cell signal, but no damage to the radio for wifi? Or is it more likely that T-Mobile just has the worst network of any of the major carriers I've used?
I've never been happy with my cellular/4g coverage with this provider, but the past 3 weeks things have gone to pretty annoying to beyond maddening as I miss, and and unable to send or receive, important texts and calls. I'd like to believe this is not a carrier issue, since I like their true unlimited data plan, but unlimited data isn't much good when it rarely works. Should I switch carriers in 2 months when my contract is up?
karadactyl
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:43 pm
Joined: 06 Sep 2013Posts: 366
As a fellow T-Mobile user, I actually haven't had any extensive network problems lately... same general blah-ness it's always been. And I'm using an incredibly old phone right now that does have it's own set of internal problems.
fourfingersdown
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:47 pm
r.w. = rainn wilson!Joined: 21 Mar 2008Posts: 1078Location: NOT FUCKING ENGLAND
Dear Joe,
Why are Seahawks fans some of the most annoying in all of sport, followed closely by Oakland Raiders fans and San Francisco Giants fans?
_________________ Please disregard.
Chip McShoulder
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:04 am
dog licking ice cream coneJoined: 11 Aug 2008Posts: 3022Location: Rainbow Road
To be fair, no Hawks/Giants/Raiders fan has ever poisoned a rival fanbase's 85 year old oak trees.
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