My daily ride ('85 League Fuji, nothin' special except it's mine) is in need of a new wheelset. Front rim is dented, rear wheel keeps breaking spokes. I'm considering a 650b conversion, partly for an autumn project and partly because I'd like to gain room for fenders.
I don't have an exhaustive list of frame measurements, but I'm reasonably sure the conversion is feasible (currently running 700 x 28 tires with almost no clearance, short / "standard" reach dual-pivot brakes). Bottom bracket is fairly high too, I believe, and I have short cranks (165 mm).
What say you, Pointy3? Anyone got a wheelset around? Or rims? I'm looking to buy, or for recommendations on what / where to buy. Good advice / assistance gets you a pint. I've dredged up old threads on the forums and a few websites, but am looking for some guidance / grumping.
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lantius
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:07 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
I built up Caroline's 650b mixte using the Weinmann Zac 19 650b rims, and they've seemed pretty solid so far. The bonus is that they were about the same price for a pair of rims as a single of the more expensive jobbies.
I'm a big fan of long-reach centerpull brakes, since they seem to stay out of the way of the fender more than sidepulls in tight tolerances.
donavanm
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:51 am
Joined: 14 Jun 2012Posts: 1342
Ive got a spare 650b VO wheelset + tires if you want to try and mount 'em up. The last couple 650B wheels I built I just went with Velocity Synergy rims. Havent had any issues with them.
For centerpulls I think youre limited to dia compe or paul. If you want sidepull/dual pivot Tektro R556/R559 work nicely for not too much. I've actually got both of those brakes if you want actual measurements.
blasdelf
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:16 am
BAD NAVIGATORJoined: 01 Mar 2010Posts: 1505
A grump's guide to 650b conversions
WHEELS:
The cheap prebuilt 650b wheels for rim brakes I was telling you about appear to have pretty much dried up now. There's still some dynamo front wheels but the matching rears are gone, and used 135mm MTB hubs anyway which would be a stretch to fit in your frame.
I've actually got a set that I'm about to sell, but they're 135-spaced and also have expensive bling hubs (and Squirrel is first in line). You could post a WTB ad on the 650b list that I'm the moderator of.
The cheapest good 650b wheelset you could build would be around $225 parts cost:
Your frame is just about perfect on height clearance, but width could be an issue. Measure the clearance between the stays where the brake surface on the 700c rim sits now, that's where the 650b tire will be widest. It'll most likely be the tightest at the chainstays, but luckily the fender doesn't have to wrap it there.
Your bike probably uses external hex nuts instead of the modern recessed allens, but you should check. It might be nutted rear / recessed front, in which case you can either use a nutted set with an insert on the front, or get two recessed fronts.
Centerpulls do stay out of the fender path, but they also add a bunch of extra setup complexity, and you should have enough room not to worry about the fender pinching at all.
You've got traditional "non-aero" brake levers at the moment…
I personally love them for how they feel from the drops but almost noone else shares that sentiment
Everyone else rides on the hoods most of the time and never looked back, so you may want take the opportunity while recabling everything to switch to modern levers that'll give you much better braking from the hoods and a better match for modern calipers. These levers are a bit smaller for ladyhands and probably your best bet: http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/p-19186-tektro-r341-brake-levers.aspx?variantID=50624
If there's anything you don't like about your current handlebar or stem situation it'd be good to futz with that at the same time.
MISC:
If your current rear wheel uses a freewheel, or a uniglide cassette (no lockring), you'll have to get a Hyperglide cassette to fit the new hub. See http://sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html
For fenders you almost definitely want these: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/fe2.htm (I have an cream pair sitting around new in package that I should sell you)
Berthoud stainless fenders are the other good option, but are double the cost and installation involves significant tomfoolery.
evilmikeJoined: 19 Apr 2006Posts: 640Location: Capitalist Hill
Quote:
fred wisdom
nothing to add over fred's knowledge bomb there, but I have two 650B conversions of different degrees of commitment. I have used centerpulls on each conversion, even with their increased setup complexity.
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dashap
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:36 am
professorJoined: 21 Jun 2006Posts: 1565Location: central district
Or, by the time (that is, money) you've done all that, Kathleen at Free Range could probably put together one of these for you:
Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit and far be it from me to discourage anyone from bike projects, but then you'd have another bike!
jimmythefly
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:07 am
Joined: 10 Jan 2007Posts: 1491
Emily's bike is similar to yours, it originally had 700c wheels and cleared 28mm tires with fenders.
I converted to 650b by putting on new wheels and long-reach Tektro R556 sidepull brakes. It was extraordinarily easy to do, didn't even need to use new cables.
One thing to watch out for is to be sure you get the correct nutted vs. recessed style brake-mounting bolts for your frame.
I highly recommend the swap. She now has fenders, more comfortable tires, and the bike is just as fast, if not faster than before because the tires are quite nice. It's also of course way better on roads like the one out to Suiattle or Joeball Mountain.
Edit to add: She's been using (and has swapped out when got a flat, so no issues there) 26x1-1.5 tubes without issue.
Andrew_Squirrel
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:16 am
Joined: 01 Mar 2010Posts: 2098Location: Greenwood
blasdelf wrote:
For inner tubes these are the best: http://www.xxcycle.com/innertube-f'n mtb-trekking-schwalbe-sv-12-275-presta,,en.php — but honestly YOLOing with 32-50mm 26" or 700c tubes works just fine
Whoa word filter linkage collab! and it works!
tehschkott
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:14 am
daywalkerJoined: 09 Nov 2007Posts: 6108Location: Hatertown
This is a terrible idea and you should not do it. Any of it.
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joeball
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:48 am
Joined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 6037Location: Ether
Building a wheelset is a big step in advancing as a bike nerd. It's often well worth it though and the wheelset can move to another bike if needed.
Your current bike could benefit from a new wheelset regardless and I think 650B would be a smart move for the reasons you've mentioned. Fred has highlighted current options for components that will serve you well at a reasonable price.
Now is a good time to decide, but wrapping a dyno system in (hub and lights) will tack on about 150-200$. If you already have a decent rechargeable front light this maybe a worthwhile cost savings to forgo the dyno set up right now and just build a 650b front with a nice old front hub (have an ultregra front hub you can have).
Eric_s
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:12 pm
Joined: 07 Mar 2007Posts: 1691Location: the dirty south
On the other hand, I love my dyno setup. I have a very bright, usable front light which I never need to charge. However, it did set me back about $250 by the time I got everything built and assembled. In contrast, my rear wheel cost $80 tax incl.
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blasdelf
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:59 pm
BAD NAVIGATORJoined: 01 Mar 2010Posts: 1505
but you can't even buy a bottom-barrel front wheel in 650b for that much off the shelf — nerdbiek problems
if you're already gonna be building wheels, using a dyno hub is an absolute no-brainer, that 1.5W hub I linked is only about 15 bucks more than a Tiagra hub with equivalent bearings (and there's a cheaper one in 32h)
the awesome full strength dynohub with 105/Ultegra level bearings is only $50 more than the equivalent plain hub
there's bargain dyno lights as cheap as $20, and the new all-around best buy will be $75 when it comes out in a few weeks
I also have a few lights I'm not using that I should sell off
blasdelf
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:07 pm
BAD NAVIGATORJoined: 01 Mar 2010Posts: 1505
dashap wrote:
Or, by the time (that is, money) you've done all that, Kathleen at Free Range could probably put together one of these for you:
Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit and far be it from me to discourage anyone from bike projects, but then you'd have another bike!
that's at least a $1600 bike as shown
and we're talking about as little as $400 in parts
but N+1 is a lifestyle choice I agree with
Bo Ttorff
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:18 pm
GO SEAHAWKS!! 12 for LYFEJoined: 20 Jul 2011Posts: 3092Location: King County
blasdelf wrote:
I also have a few lights I'm not using that I should sell off
Bro, sup?
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justgarth
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:17 pm
Joined: 04 Apr 2011Posts: 802
Bo Ttorff wrote:
blasdelf wrote:
I also have a few lights I'm not using that I should sell off
Bro, sup?
This.
I have at least a couple wheel builds down the pipeline. I smell a wrench party coming up.
Heather, if you end up buying a dyno hub online, let me know - would love to split shipping with you!
caustic meatloaf
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:40 pm
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
Uh, if folks are thinking of doing another bulk purchse from our favorite german site for stuff like this, let me know. I still need to get off my ass and get that bad-ass dyno light they're always selling.
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limpyweta
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:18 pm
Joined: 23 Sep 2008Posts: 740Location: North Beach
How do we compare to Snoopy and the Peanuts? I don't get it. Where can I find a piano like that btw?
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caustic meatloaf
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:35 pm
Joined: 06 Dec 2010Posts: 1235537Location: a hammy melange...
I think this now sums up this thread nicely.
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H-Dubs
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:49 pm
Joined: 12 Aug 2011Posts: 127Location: Wallyhood
Thanks for the advice everyone. That was an awesome amount of information.
Hilariously enough, this may be a moot question as I bent that frame last night (frame now features significant front wheel-downtube overlap, with a dent on the bottom of the downtube near the lug where it meets the headtube). I blame the Nitelite.
So in the end, Professor Dave's advice may be what I end up taking. Or, if anyone is hanging onto another 52 cm road frame...
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Andrew_Squirrel
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:03 pm
Joined: 01 Mar 2010Posts: 2098Location: Greenwood
RIP Frame :(
IMO Soma rando is kinda derp from a aesthetics standpoint.
I would be interested to see how this bike builds up down at Freerange:
Thanks for the advice everyone. That was an awesome amount of information.
Hilariously enough, this may be a moot question as I bent that frame last night (frame now features significant front wheel-downtube overlap, with a dent on the bottom of the downtube near the lug where it meets the headtube). I blame the Nitelite.
So in the end, Professor Dave's advice may be what I end up taking. Or, if anyone is hanging onto another 52 cm road frame...
plus 1 for andrew's free range post, but this bike is actually pretty nice:
GO SEAHAWKS!! 12 for LYFEJoined: 20 Jul 2011Posts: 3092Location: King County
Is there any other benefits to a 650 conversion other than fender clearance?
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Andrew_Squirrel
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:16 pm
Joined: 01 Mar 2010Posts: 2098Location: Greenwood
- Cushier ride quality since you can fit larger tires + fenders
- Apparently there is something magical about the overall diameter of 700c(28) or 650b(42mm) where the rotational inertia is optimized (maybe someone else can elaborate?)
- Some would argue increased speed on mixed surface roads because of tire deflection. Let's be honest, its pretty rare to find smooth roads these days.
...at least that's what the 650b advocates feed me
Joined: 23 Sep 2008Posts: 740Location: North Beach
If I was shorter I'd just get a 26" wheel frame so I guess I wouldn't have to make 8/10 LBS' to special order rims or rubber when the time comes, and would have better chances finding used parts.
Then again, what are the updates on how many local bike shops now have a decent selection of 650B, and is the market for this standard expanding?
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donavanm
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:03 pm
Joined: 14 Jun 2012Posts: 1342
limpyweta wrote:
If I was shorter I'd just get a 26" wheel frame so I guess I wouldn't have to make 8/10 LBS' to special order rims or rubber when the time comes, and would have better chances finding used parts.
Then again, what are the updates on how many local bike shops now have a decent selection of 650B, and is the market for this standard expanding?
I just saw this mid 80s Bob Jackson frame for $150, ends in 4 hours. Typical 80s mtb geometry, 55cm x 50cm. Would be sweet with some swept bars for someone who rides 52-54 normally.
WRT to 650b its hit and miss from what ive seen. The usual suspects, freerange, bike so good, and wright brothers carry a couple 650B parts. The internets offer more options, of course. Other than the rims and tires theres not much else to worry about. I just use 26" tubes, personally.
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