now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
im building up a cad3 cannondale aluminum frame that i bought on here a couple days ago.
im shopping around for front derailleurs and seeing a bunch of different sizes (31.8, 35, etc)
do i need to bring this into a shop to get measured so i know the correct size, or does someone know for sure what size that type of frame would need off the top of their head?
lieutenantsean
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:07 pm
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
If you have a set of vernier calipers, you can measure it. Aaron may know the number off the top of his head.
To avoid problems, probably best to take the frame with you and make sure the frame clamp actually fits.
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derrickito
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:17 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
im buying some parts online, so i gotta measure if nobody knows. ill bring it out on monday probably for a quick measure. i should learn how to do it anyways. :)
lantius
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:18 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
derrickito wrote:
im buying some parts online, so i gotta measure if nobody knows. ill bring it out on monday probably for a quick measure. i should learn how to do it anyways. :)
i got a set of calipers that are no more than four blocks from your house if you'd like to use them.
lieutenantsean
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:20 pm
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
calipers rock. Everyone should have a set.
Although now I find myself measuring things that I never cared about before.
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derrickito
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:27 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
lantius wrote:
i got a set of calipers that are no more than four blocks from your house if you'd like to use them.
rock. that would be great. i can order these up quicker that way. whats your number? i dont think ive saved it in my phone before
henry
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:28 pm
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
lieutenantsean wrote:
calipers rock. Everyone should have a set.
Although now I find myself measuring things that I never cared about before.
i bet you could create a very detailed model of your penis withougt doing a cast of it.
Yeah, my calipers are calibrated in millimeters so it'll seem all big.
Let's see, 22 mm by 10 mm...
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joeball
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:12 pm
Joined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 6037Location: Ether
Derrick, I'm almost positive you will need a 31.8mm (1 1/4 inches) clamp. As time has progressed, frame material have changed and seattubes gotten larger. Steel frames have smaller diameter seat tubes and usually take 28.6mm (1 1/8 in) clamps. Aluminum frames began with a larger diameter seattube 31.8mm (1 1/14). Now there are oversized seatubes that take a 34.9mm clamp.
lantius
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:36 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
i agree with andre that it'd be weird if your clamp diameter wasn't 31.8mm. still, doesn't really hurt to check. will you be around tonight, semi-late? i'll likely be rolling around town but whenever i end up home i can grab the caliper and roll back over your way.
derrickito
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:42 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
yeah definately. im just staying home tonight for the most part. give a ring to make sure im there 491.1441.
appreciate it
derrickito
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:17 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
im pooping off to bed early tonight. hope you see this before rolling over late
if you come out tomorrow, can you throw that measurerer thingamajiggy in your bag?
Aaron
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:21 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
derrickito wrote:
im buying some parts online, so i gotta measure if nobody knows. ill bring it out on monday probably for a quick measure. i should learn how to do it anyways. :)
So I know exactly what size you need, but why should I tell you?!
Ask the fuckers online what size you need! Then when they send you the wrong size you can go to your LBS and get the correct one. Why don't you just ride over to Ti Cycles and get a derailleur? They are a Cannondale dealer.
So now that my rant is done, yes you need a 1 1/4" (31.8mm)
derrickito
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:40 am
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
im already going to buy a few things from you for it mr crankypants
i was going to get a chain, cassette, a seatpost, cabling and housings, and some other stuff.
im trying to save myself from spending assloads on the main drivetrain by buying a few things used on ebay.
Last edited by derrickito on Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Torch
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:43 am
TerranceJoined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 1637Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
i'm surprised nobody's mocked you for using derailleurs yet.
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derrickito
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:46 am
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
its for my girlfriend. she'd die on a fixed gear right now.
joby
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:49 am
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
Torch wrote:
i'm surprised nobody's mocked you for using derailleurs yet.
Have I mentioned that Derailleurs are the best bicycle invention since pneumatic tires?
500% range, 98% efficency. $40 cost.
dennyt
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:23 pm
rocket mechanicJoined: 02 Aug 2005Posts: 2708
A complete shifting system costs more than that, of course.
But I'm continually amazed that track cogs cost as much as multi-speed freewheels or cassettes. WTF?
joby
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:36 pm
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
dennyt wrote:
A complete shifting system costs more than that, of course.
But I'm continually amazed that track cogs cost as much as multi-speed freewheels or cassettes. WTF?
Rational people buy derailers, so they are priced rationally.
lieutenantsean
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:38 pm
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
Ability to deal with technology=lower cost.
The amount of material you actually buy doesn't have anything to do with price anymore.
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Aaron
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:04 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
dennyt wrote:
But I'm continually amazed that track cogs cost as much as multi-speed freewheels or cassettes. WTF?
Supply and Demand. Few people demand track cogs therefore they make few and so the price remains high. Cassettes & Freewheels are made by the millions!
Aaron
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:05 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
derrickito wrote:
im already going to buy a few things from you for it mr crankypants
i was going to get a chain, cassette, a seatpost, cabling and housings, and some other stuff.
im trying to save myself from spending assloads on the main drivetrain by buying a few things used on ebay.
Just giving you some shit right back! I am not Cranky, except when I pedal a bike.
lieutenantsean
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:12 pm
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
Aaron wrote:
dennyt wrote:
But I'm continually amazed that track cogs cost as much as multi-speed freewheels or cassettes. WTF?
Supply and Demand. Few people demand track cogs therefore they make few and so the price remains high. Cassettes & Freewheels are made by the millions!
Actually, it's called "Economy of Scale."
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joby
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:16 pm
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
lieutenantsean wrote:
Aaron wrote:
dennyt wrote:
But I'm continually amazed that track cogs cost as much as multi-speed freewheels or cassettes. WTF?
Supply and Demand. Few people demand track cogs therefore they make few and so the price remains high. Cassettes & Freewheels are made by the millions!
Actually, it's called "Economy of Scale."
Yep. There's also an element of "Price discrimination".
lieutenantsean
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:19 pm
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
joby wrote:
Yep. There's also an element of "Price discrimination".
What in the hell does "Price discrimination" mean?
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joby
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:21 pm
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
lieutenantsean wrote:
joby wrote:
Yep. There's also an element of "Price discrimination".
What in the hell does "Price discrimination" mean?
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Aaron
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:26 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
Economy of scale plays a part, but they could make millions of track cogs if people wanted them. I stand by my S&D opinion.
lieutenantsean
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:32 pm
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
But people don't want gazillions of them, hence there is no motivation to develop an efficient means of making that many.
The motivation to increase production (and hence, establish an economy of scale) is driven by demand.
S&D is the simple answer. Economy of scale explains how manufacturers can produce enough supply to meet demand on one hand, but still maintain a favorable price on the other hand.
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joby
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:38 pm
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
lieutenantsean wrote:
Ok, you made the statement. Justify it.
when you go to the gas station and buy 87 octane gas, you are demonstrating that you are value conscious. As a result, the gas station tries to keep the price of 87 octane gas low, to compete with other gas stations.
When you go to a gas station and buy 92 Octane gas, you you are demonstrating that you are not as value conscious. Since you didn't buy a car that will burn cheap gas, you're also probably unlikely to bother shopping around for the best price on high-octane gas.
Similarly, First class tickets to London cost 20 times what a discount coach seat costs, even thought the cost of providing a first class seat is less than 3 times as high.
If you're shopping for coach tickets, you've demonstrated that you are cheap, and the airline knows it needs to compete aggressively to keep you from going to another airline.
If you're shopping for first-class tickets, you've demonstrated that you have tons of money, and probably can't be bothered to shop around.
If you're shopping for an after-market Tiagra derailleur, you're clearly a cheapskate who just wants something that will work.
If you're shopping for track-bike parts, you've demonstrated that you're an enthusiast, and probably are willing to spend more money.
derrickito
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:50 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
im shopping for whatever the fuck i can find 9 speed rear sora - dura ace, doesnt matter in a price that is a steal.
i demonstrate that i love ebay and fried stuff with cheese is more important than jesus.
lieutenantsean
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:58 pm
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
joby wrote:
when you go to the gas station and buy 87 octane gas, you are demonstrating that you are value conscious. As a result, the gas station tries to keep the price of 87 octane gas low, to compete with other gas stations.
When you go to a gas station and buy 92 Octane gas, you you are demonstrating that you are not as value conscious. Since you didn't buy a car that will burn cheap gas, you're also probably unlikely to bother shopping around for the best price on high-octane gas.
Similarly, First class tickets to London cost 20 times what a discount coach seat costs, even thought the cost of providing a first class seat is less than 3 times as high.
If you're shopping for coach tickets, you've demonstrated that you are cheap, and the airline knows it needs to compete aggressively to keep you from going to another airline.
If you're shopping for first-class tickets, you've demonstrated that you have tons of money, and probably can't be bothered to shop around.
If you're shopping for an after-market Tiagra derailleur, you're clearly a cheapskate who just wants something that will work.
If you're shopping for track-bike parts, you've demonstrated that you're an enthusiast, and probably are willing to spend more money.
Your conclusions don't necessarily follow from your arguments. You make a valid point that some people are willing to pay more for what they perceive as higher quality.
Higher grade fuels typically require more refinement and frequently have additives to do... whatever.
Providing service to a first class customer and the reduction in passenger density in First Class does make the per unit cost higher to the airline (although agreeably, not as much as the airline charges).
If one believes the hype, a dura-ace shifter is made from stronger and lighter parts than a tiagra, and receives more attention in the manufacturing process. Hence, per unit costs should be greater (although again, it's probably less than the price difference between the two).
However, your argument does nothing to address the fact that manufacturers are willing to charge nearly the same amount of money for something that costs less in terms of raw materials.
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Torch
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:03 pm
TerranceJoined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 1637Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
my bike has tiagra shifters. they're kinda asstastic.
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langston
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:09 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
Torch wrote:
my bike has tiagra shifters. they're kinda asstastic.
I run 'em too. They less than suck.
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derrickito
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:13 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
im running sora's on one of my bikes and havent had a single problem ever. i havent even ever had to adjust them once. ive been happy for being low end
lieutenantsean
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:17 pm
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
I run ultegras on my bike. They work good too. Don't know why I picked them over Soras. I probably had a reason at the time but I don't remember what it was.
Honestly, Shimano will need to come up with something pretty damn smurfy for me to go with their high-end shit.
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lantius
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:18 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
derrickito wrote:
im running sora's on one of my bikes and havent had a single problem ever. i havent even ever had to adjust them once. ive been happy for being low end
downtube shifting is the bomb.
i heard you can still be cool and use derailleurs if you use friction shifting.
lieutenantsean
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:20 pm
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
Friction shifting and simplicity are the two things I miss about down tube shifters.
Other than that, I like the brake/shift lever thingy.
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derrickito
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:33 am
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
rear derailleur question. my cable routes from the bottom, so that would be a "bottom pull" derailleur correct? not a top pull?
lieutenantsean
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:50 am
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
Not sure what you are getting at here. I've never heard of a top or bottom pull rear derailleur.
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now with 50 percent more EVIL
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1337
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Terrance
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rocket mechanic
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