So I've been lightly looking around at E bike conversion kits. I'm curious what good places (online, local) are that i should be checking out?
I'm hoping to find a kit to strap onto an existing build easily. 700c front wheel, batteries with options for different range/power, ability to work with road bars (or are they only easily working on flat bars?). I like the premade kits, I can integrate them into my bike, but I'm not looking at doing heavy mods (ala dennyt build your own from scratch)
what should i be looking at, what should i be avoiding, anything on the horizon, etc? is front wheel the best option, or are rear wheel or pedal assist smarter options?
links, info. hit me!
haulincolin
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:22 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 271Location: at work
A bike shop in Vancouver, BC called Grintech is at the forefront of developing and selling electric bicycle technology. They have tons of good information on their website at www.ebikes.ca. They sell everything from basic conversion kits like you're asking for to specialty parts for high power setups like Denny's.
The owner of that place also runs a message board at https://endless-sphere.com/forums/ that contains everything you'd ever want to know about electric bicycles if you're willing to slog through it.
rory
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:02 pm
Joined: 13 Sep 2010Posts: 158
[quote="derrickito"]
what should i be looking at, what should i be avoiding, anything on the horizon, etc? is front wheel the best option, or are rear wheel or pedal assist smarter options?
links, info. hit me![/quote]
Locally, electric vehicles nw have a great selection to look at. I run a mid drive bafang system they installed, and it works good, and I think its the easiest plug and play system. I think a front wheel system can be better, but you end up replacing more parts then the bafang mid drive conversion kit, while it ends up costing the same.
The best off the shelf mid drive I've seen is this:
[url]http://www.empoweredcycles.com/products/8fun-bafang-bbs02-mid-drive-motor-electric-bike-kit
[/url]
The worse problem with them is getting the Busch and Müller light to work with it. It cam be done, but its not trivial.
Last edited by rory on Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:53 am; edited 2 times in total
derrickito
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:16 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
thanks guys. ive been pouring over those links colin put up reading and learning.
i'm partial to putting on an ezee rear kit in 48v with a good amp hour battery. http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/conversion-kits/ezee-rear-kit-advanced-pas.html i like the idea of not modifying my drive train at all and just slipping in a new wheel. the rear wheel powered option seems to be more favored for better control than the front wheel power option
these things ain't cheap! this might be a "what if i could justify the money" project that never materializes, or i might have to put it off a bit, or buy piece meal. the bike i want to put it onto i might have to old manify with some albatross bars too, doesn't look like a real easy way to add throttles onto road drop bars in a way that makes it easy and not scary to ride.
rory
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:18 pm
Joined: 13 Sep 2010Posts: 158
derrickito wrote:
i'm not willing spend thousand dollars something I've never tried before.
Totally understand. The way I justify the investment is it makes riding in the city that much tolerable. I haul kids, and more power to the parents that do this without electricity. But, I'd rather spend my effort doing something I enjoy. Ebikes are worth the investment for city riding.
If I was wanted a family bike off the shelf right now, I'd get the felt bruhaha. Done.
Last edited by rory on Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:52 am; edited 1 time in total
derrickito
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:34 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
Question: with the mid drive kits like the bafang it always drives the chain correct? So it's a 100 percent assist system? You can't just crank the power on and ride without pedaling moto style can you?
haulincolin
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:41 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 271Location: at work
Most mid drive kits, including the Bafang, use some kind of freewheeling system to allow the chainrings to overrun the crank arms. It's the same kind of thing I have on my tandem to allow independent freewheeling between the captain and stoker. However, I'm pretty sure the Bafang comes stock as a "pedal assist" only, so it uses a torque sensor to see how hard you're pedaling and engages the motor proportionally. I think it's pretty easy to retrofit to use a throttle if you want.
By the way, I notice the kit you're looking at on Grintech's website is the pedal assist model. Not sure if that's what you're going for--personally, I prefer to just use a throttle--but if so I'd definitely recommend getting one of the torque sensors. Just using a pedal sensor (which is the default option for that kit) means you get non-proportional pedal assist which is the worst of both worlds.
Another thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that Grintech is definitely not the cheapest place to buy this stuff. You can find cheapo kits on eBay and elsewhere. What you're paying for at Grintech is stuff that you know has been thoroughly vetted by professionals, and excellent technical support. For that reason, I recommend them for almost everything. One major exception: for batteries, I use em3ev. They have a great reputation for high quality batteries, and are a bit cheaper than Grintech.
Alex
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:10 am
Joined: 18 May 2006Posts: 3128Location: Roosevelt
The Bafang doesn't have a torque sensor at all. It is a cadence measuring system. I don't really like it. As an example just soft rotating your pedals into position to jump off of a curb will cause the motor to kick in.
You can ride my bike if you want to try a lower power front hub system Derrick.
I like Grin's stuff pretty well and bought most of my kit through Davey at G&O. I have:
* Grin/Infineon 15A motor controller
* Cycle Analyst V3
* Bafang/8Fun disk hub motor. It weighs 2kg, 250w, and is hard to find (Grin doesn't sell it). It is the motor that is on the Farraday.
* Thun torque sensing bottom bracket
* 2x Grin 36V/2.5A battery as my light option (about 2lbs, this is 5AH when combined and 30-50 mile range for how I use the bike)
* AllCell Naked 36V/10AH battery as my heavy option (about 5lbs, about 60-100 mile range for how I use the bike).
I don't have a throttle on my bike, but it only takes about 5 minutes to hook it up.
My bike rides well without the e-assist as well. If I bring it on .83 rides (like joeball mountain last summer) I leave the motor off most of the time.
Alex
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:25 am
Joined: 18 May 2006Posts: 3128Location: Roosevelt
Primer on control styles:
* Throttle -- You push a button and the harder you push the faster you go.
* PAS/Cadence Sensor -- You pedal and the motor gets a preset power sent to it. Some systems provide more power at higher cadence. It doesn't know how hard you pedal, just how fast. That is how the Bafang BBS01/02 works.
* Torque Sensing -- The bottom bracket has a basic power meter and can tell how much power you are pedaling with. The motor follows by some multiplier (so if the multiplier is set to 1 and you are climbing Golden Gardens with 300 watts of effort the hub will add 300 watts on it's own). This is the most intuitive setup, but costs the most.
Most hub motors are sized so that 48v will top out around 25mph, 36v will top out around 20mph.
It's obvious, but the more that the motor does the more battery you need to carry. Colin can go a lot faster than me (and without even pedaling if he wants), but carries 4-5x the weight in batteries.
You want a geared hub motor if you want the bike to be fun to ride without any assist. The geared hub motors have a clutch or freewheel that allows the hub to turn with no real resistance when the motor isn't in use.
You want a direct drive motor if you want to put out insane amounts of power.
You should talk to Andrew about kid bikes. Check my facebook for a photo of what I'm talking about.
derrickito
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:11 am
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
i'll check out the ebay equivalents, but on something like this i'd rather pay the money for a quality vetted system than buy cheap junk. i love ebay, but not for this get up.
colin, thanks for the headsup on that other site for cheaper options. will check them out.
alex, i might holler at you to see if i can take a spin on yours to get a feel for it. thanks.
The eZee hub should have significantly higher torque, at the cost of weight (it's twice the weight of my hub). You have to figure out your goal with the ebike systems, I went for light weight and wimpy. Most builders seem to build something more like e-motorcycles.
The eZee hub should be good for 20mph with a 36V battery or a hair over 25mph with the 48V.
derrickito
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:04 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
anyone have a throttle set up that works well with drop bars? everything i see looks like it's made with flat bars in mind.
thumbshifters look janky and tiring. putting a twist throttle on the end of a drop bar sounds dumb. are flat bars the way to go if using a hand throttle system?
Alex
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:37 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006Posts: 3128Location: Roosevelt
Everything e-bike is designed around flat bars. The battery dies before you ride them too far, so the upright bar position is not a huge compromise.
rory
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:08 am
Joined: 13 Sep 2010Posts: 158
The bafang mid drive puts one of their geared hub motors in front of the crank set. You can ride it easily without the motor on, although the q factor is along the lines of a mountain bike.
The main benefit of the bafang mid drive system is there is no lag when starting to pedal like on Alex's hub system. This isn't really the mid drive motor, but the cadence versus the torque sensor. The main drawback of the mid drive system is the added weight.
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