Bed BleederJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 839Location: Ballard
And only $8,000!!!!
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wanderlyte
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:32 pm
Joined: 06 May 2006Posts: 62Location: Afloat somewhere in Puget Sound
I haven't seen that particular model before, but a couple of us were talking about bamboo bikes on a recent ride. Here is an article on another bamboo bike --- apparently their is also a design for a bamboo wheel too! Google images also turns up some interesting bamboo bike pics
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 268Location: somerville, ma
I saw one in greggs once. It looked really sexy - like a bamboo maserati. Something for those who can't think of anything good to do with their money.
Hayduke
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:29 am
Joined: 01 Feb 2006Posts: 677Location: Seattle, WA
I understand market forces; supply and demand blah blah blah...
But wouldn't the underlying purpose of a bike made from a renewable resource like bamboo be to lower the acquisition and manufacture costs to make biking more accessible to a larger segment of the population. If hybrids and bamboo bikes are only available to the top 1% of the worlds economic population will they really have an impact on the larger problems of limited resources and pollution?
Ben,
Feel free to add to this rant and call me a hippy as well.
lieutenantsean
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:47 am
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
Stop talking like that, you're making me itch.
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Vann
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:23 am
Joined: 03 Mar 2006Posts: 311
Hayduke wrote:
I understand market forces; supply and demand blah blah blah...
But wouldn't the underlying purpose of a bike made from a renewable resource like bamboo.
err....umm.....I say,
"SAVE THE BAMBOO FORRESTS!"
or
"STOP BICYCLE TESTING ON THE BAMBOO"
or
"I HEARD THAT BAMBO SCREAM WHEN YOU PUT YOUR CLEATS IN IT!"
ashley
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:44 am
Joined: 19 Jun 2006Posts: 4
I'm seeing between 2 and 3 thousand just for the frame alone. That is slightly out of my price range.
Vann
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:44 am
Joined: 03 Mar 2006Posts: 311
huh....maybe i should change my name to "thread killer"
lantius
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:49 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
ashley_exacto wrote:
I'm seeing between 2 and 3 thousand just for the frame alone. That is slightly out of my price range.
i've got a little bamboo plant growing in my windowsill. i'm just going to be patient.
langston
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:16 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
lantius wrote:
ashley_exacto wrote:
I'm seeing between 2 and 3 thousand just for the frame alone. That is slightly out of my price range.
i've got a little bamboo plant growing in my windowsill. i'm just going to be patient.
the black bamboo I bought my parents two years ago for xmas (rare, pricey, black stalks!) has finally taken off and started putting up wood. They only take 3 years or so to cure; wooden bike here I come!
joby
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:45 pm
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
What problem is being solved here?
You can't get much more renewable that steel or aluminum.
For fucks sake, you can't get much more renewable than a bicycle, period.
This thing is an insult to Bicycles, and insult to Sustainable living, and an insult to bamboo.
the dreaded ben
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:36 pm
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
joby wrote:
What problem is being solved here?
You can't get much more renewable that steel or aluminum.
For fucks sake, you can't get much more renewable than a bicycle, period.
This thing is an insult to Bicycles, and insult to Sustainable living, and an insult to bamboo.
once again jobies, i must say thank you for clearing up that retardation.
leah
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:27 am
elderJoined: 10 Feb 2006Posts: 594Location: The Bucket
joby wrote:
What problem is being solved here?
You can't get much more renewable that steel or aluminum.
For fucks sake, you can't get much more renewable than a bicycle, period.
This thing is an insult to Bicycles, and insult to Sustainable living, and an insult to bamboo.
for the sake of arguement, bamboo is far more accessable than any metal in developing southasia. having this kind of access to transportation with a material that grows better than any weed (some species grow a meter a day) would likely do a hell of a lot of sharpen their enconomies without necessarily diffusing the oh-so-important family unit... and this would keep the wealth from centralizing because people wouldn't have to leave the village if they chose not to starve.
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joeball
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:41 am
Joined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 6037Location: Ether
leah wrote:
joby wrote:
What problem is being solved here?
You can't get much more renewable that steel or aluminum.
For fucks sake, you can't get much more renewable than a bicycle, period.
This thing is an insult to Bicycles, and insult to Sustainable living, and an insult to bamboo.
for the sake of arguement, bamboo is far more accessable than any metal in developing southasia. having this kind of access to transportation with a material that grows better than any weed (some species grow a meter a day) would likely do a hell of a lot of sharpen their enconomies without necessarily diffusing the oh-so-important family unit... and this would keep the wealth from centralizing because people wouldn't have to leave the village if they chose not to starve.
For the sake of a continuing argument... I don't think there is any lack of bicycles in asia. Steel framed bicycles are on the order of 100years old and welding is even older. Carbon fiber lugs??? well not so old, and despite the fact that asia is still spiting out most of the carbon fiber bikes that hang in Performance, they are not knocking around in asia.
The calfee bike and many others are being made because they can, because it is something different. And they have managed to find a few benefits of bamboo so they can sell you on it. While their efforts have been an exercise in problem solving so that they could create the bike. The final product doesn't really solve any problems.
I doubt there would be VBBS (Village Bamboo Bike Shops) popping up in little Asian villages. Economies of scale would still keep production out of the villages. Plus who says the local variety of bamboo would even be compatible? Reading about the guy who built the bamboo mtn bike he said it took him longer to find the bamboo (from 2 different countries) than to make the frame.
mike.hahn
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:23 am
Joined: 20 Jan 2006Posts: 203
joby wrote:
...This thing is an insult to Bicycles, and insult to Sustainable living, and an insult to bamboo.
So does this mean a chair cannot be beautiful (even impractical), just because chairs originally arose as simple, utilitarian objects? Uh oh... better smash Mom's good china, lest the artistic flourishes be an affront to simpler dishes.
This bike, like any art, justifies itself by the emotions it feeds. Further, I submit that the REAL beauty of bikes is their wide appeal and ability to be different things to different people. Daily transport, mountain goat, lazy beach cruise, track monster, wall art... Forcing the bicycle into a narrow definition, governed by utility, takes away the fun.
kinaidos
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:46 am
Joined: 18 May 2006Posts: 27Location: Cap Hill
Of course no one is going to put these into heavy production. Bamboo tubes aren't engineered, they are selected, which requires quite a bit of manual effort to put the tubes together.
The allure of the bike isn't that it's made from a renewable resource, it's in it's obviously being hand-built. Sure it's expensive, but so are Ericksons or Tomasinis or any other steel bike with hand-filed lugs, etc.
I would rather spend more for a bike and have the money go to people who take the time to build something special. I'd do it for the same reason I buy handbuilt wheels rather than manufactured ones, hand-sewn bags rather than manufactured ones, and Nitto bars (e.g.) rather than something stamped out by the thousands. It all costs a bit more, but the money goes to people who I think deserve it. The product is also better, but mostly it's a matter of the economic community I want to be part of.
If environmental impact were an issue, than recycling old bikes, and thus bikes that are recyclable would be better, but at 4 lbs of frame material, it's really not an issue.
joby
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:40 pm
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
mike.hahn wrote:
joby wrote:
...This thing is an insult to Bicycles, and insult to Sustainable living, and an insult to bamboo.
So does this mean a chair cannot be beautiful (even impractical), just because chairs originally arose as simple, utilitarian objects? Uh oh... better smash Mom's good china, lest the artistic flourishes be an affront to simpler dishes.
This bike, like any art, justifies itself by the emotions it feeds. Further, I submit that the REAL beauty of bikes is their wide appeal and ability to be different things to different people. Daily transport, mountain goat, lazy beach cruise, track monster, wall art... Forcing the bicycle into a narrow definition, governed by utility, takes away the fun.
Sure. Buy one as art, not as way to travel.
The Bamboo bike projects piss me off because several of the groups making them claim that they are more sustainable. And that's just dumb.
Razi
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:54 pm
Joined: 16 Dec 2005Posts: 866Location: Seattle
joby wrote:
The Bamboo bike projects piss me off because several of the groups making them claim that they are more sustainable. And that's just dumb.
Indeed. I was sorta amused by all this until I found an add for this on Grist magazine. This is not being marketed as art, like Andre said, this is a solution to a problem that does not exist.
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
Razi wrote:
Indeed. I was sorta amused by all this until I found an add for this on Grist magazine. This is not being marketed as art, like Andre said, this is a solution to a problem that does not exist.
haha, either somebody at grist has never used the internet or has a very subtle sense of humor:
The Bamboo bike projects piss me off because several of the groups making them claim that they are more sustainable. And that's just dumb.
I’m not sure I’m following ya. Sure, right now, in the current world, there isn’t a pressing need for bamboo bikes. Then again there isn’t a pressing need for biodegradable plastics, ethanol fuel, or wind farms either.
Compare the environmental costs and resources needed for steal tubes (or god forbid aluminum) vs. bamboo. The mining, the smelting, the manufacturing. Now compare that to bamboo, that grows like a weed in any old dirt with reasonable irrigation.
China is already choking on its own pollution and having to make some really tough decisions. Demand for many raw materials from fresh water to titanium is so high that in many local markets prices regularly spike by several hundred percent.
The second cheep energy isn’t cheep anymore and environmental dumping has consequences, then sustainability won’t just be something that gives hippies boners, it will be a very real factor in all business. I’m not exactly eager to trade in my metal bike, but strictly from a sustainability stand point I can’t see how Bamboo bikes are ‘dumb’.
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the dreaded ben
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
SofaKing wrote:
Then again there isn’t a pressing need for biodegradable plastics, ethanol fuel, or wind farms either.
larson b ice shelf wrote:
hey, fuck you buddy.
joby
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:46 pm
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
SofaKing wrote:
joby wrote:
The Bamboo bike projects piss me off because several of the groups making them claim that they are more sustainable. And that's just dumb.
I’m not sure I’m following ya. Sure, right now, in the current world, there isn’t a pressing need for bamboo bikes. Then again there isn’t a pressing need for biodegradable plastics, ethanol fuel, or wind farms either.
Compare the environmental costs and resources needed for steal tubes (or god forbid aluminum) vs. bamboo. The mining, the smelting, the manufacturing. Now compare that to bamboo, that grows like a weed in any old dirt with reasonable irrigation.
China is already choking on its own pollution and having to make some really tough decisions. Demand for many raw materials from fresh water to titanium is so high that in many local markets prices regularly spike by several hundred percent.
The second cheep energy isn’t cheep anymore and environmental dumping has consequences, then sustainability won’t just be something that gives hippies boners, it will be a very real factor in all business. I’m not exactly eager to trade in my metal bike, but strictly from a sustainability stand point I can’t see how Bamboo bikes are ‘dumb’.
Solid steel bike frames last more or less forever. I've got a few 30-year-old frames, and that's without even trying. with a little care, a frame can last over 50 years, easy. If your frame fails after 50 years, YOU RECYCLE IT.
They energy cost per mile of this whole system is just about zero. Really.
Want to save the world? GET PEOPLE ON BICYCLES. Don't confuse the issue with overpriced inferior granola - yuppie wet dreams.
Aaron
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:03 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
I read somewhere in some commie-hippie-science magazine once that we have basically extracted all the metal we WILL EVER NEED out of the earth. Now if we could just start recycling all of it, then we would not need to dig out more.
I also read once that Americans throw away enough aluminum cans each year to rebuild out entire commercial air fleet.
Digging metal out of the earth = bad.
Riding a bike = good.
Aruguing on the internet = fun?
leah
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:38 am
elderJoined: 10 Feb 2006Posts: 594Location: The Bucket
let me straighten this out. i was thinking largely of nepal which doesn't have many bikes. anywhere. not in kathmandu, not in any of the 40 person villages scattered from the plains to everest. the bikes that do exist are from india and totally falling apart... but to get your seat stays welded back on means going to a big city and paying someone a lot of money. this just isn't an option for most of the people i met.
too, who said these bikes have to be fistulous? i said nothing about putting people on racing bikes. bamboo easily grows thick enough that tubes can be carved out. it's also a material most people can manufacture. in this way, it's economically sustainable. i said nothing about the envionment.
there's nothing "yuppie wet dreams" about this. sorry to spoil your crass rant.
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iro1751
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:47 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 723
But isn't anything carbon fiber an element of the "yuppie wet dream"? Doesn't this thing have carbon lugs? I can see a carbon fork falling out of that ranking, but major frame components made of carbon speak to me as "disposable bike," and therefore yuppified.
I don't think this is in the same league as a bike that is made near entirely of bamboo--as in bamboo spokes, bamboo seat, bamboo "lugs" lashed together with twine or something, but maybe I'm just imagining Gilligan's Island or something.
lantius
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:21 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
actually economically sustainable version:
note the lack of carbon lugs, aluminium and steel wheels, etc. for the poorest of the poor, what they can find for free is all they can afford. this isn't exactly in the same league as the carbon fiber and bamboo bike above.
for so many reasons steel is probably the best material out there for building bicycles, hands down. those wooden bikes are the best at the 'low production cost', but steel is much more efficient and durable. i mean, if getting your steel seat stays welded is expensive, how much more expensive is to get the entire carbon seatpost lug replaced when it cracks? and remember, if you can get electricity, you can get a welder.
keyholefish
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:15 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 268Location: somerville, ma
SofaKing wrote:
Compare the environmental costs and resources needed for steal tubes (or god forbid aluminum) vs. bamboo. The mining, the smelting, the manufacturing. Now compare that to bamboo, that grows like a weed in any old dirt with reasonable irrigation.
While steel's refining cost is high, as other have said, at least it's durable, repairable, and recyclable. Carbon fiber is none of these things, and requires just as much heavy industry to produce the synthetic precursor fibers and thermoset binders.
pyörä
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:05 pm
Joined: 09 Jan 2006Posts: 69Location: bicycle
so I know it's been two years and more, but I just got excited about bamboo bikes at lunch today. literally growing transportation seems pretty fucking rad to me. argue about the structural and recyclable merits of steel all you want, growing a bike is so much more interesting. I'm imagining not building a bike frame out of bamboo, but training and grafting bamboo, or some other plant, into the right shape while it's alive. other folks have grown furniture and buildings, so I don't think it's that far-fetched. obviously the Calfee bike isn't so hot with it's carbon fiber and giant price tag, but as proof that bamboo can perform well it's not all bad. for what it's worth, Calfee is working on a project in Ghana that seems pretty commendable.
apologies for getting all excited; I know that's a bit passé these days.
Milx
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:26 pm
Joined: 10 Dec 2007Posts: 348Location: Capitol Hill
pyörä wrote:
I'm imagining not building a bike frame out of bamboo, but training and grafting bamboo, or some other plant, into the right shape while it's alive.
I'm imagining having something else to throw on the fire when the wood runs out and I'm too drunk to ride and get more.
lantius
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:49 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
bikes do not belong on fires!
Eric_s
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:59 pm
Joined: 07 Mar 2007Posts: 1691Location: the dirty south
As for the rest of this clusterfuck: TL; DR
Re: Calfee: yeah, bamboo bikes are cool and shit, but i don't see how making carbon fiber and high tech resins part of your bike to provide the needed strength at the joints is any more sustainable than a steel bike. Shit, you can recycle steel a lot before it's junk, and yano, we do. It's just that until recently it was cheaper to dig it out of the ground, since there's a shit ton of it there, too.
Re: sustainability. Come off it. If you're buying something new, you've already failed the sustainability test. That said, if you do buy something new, then make sure it's gonna last you a long time. A bike made from plant bits is no more sustainable than a bike made from hematite dug from the ground or bauxite made from old soils if you don't ride the damn thing for a decade.
Therefore: shut the fuck up and ride. and if you gots eight grand to blow on a calfee, good on you, I'm sure it will look great on the back of your luxury car as you drive to the ride start.
Finn
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:32 pm
AlabamaJoined: 15 Sep 2006Posts: 303Location: Central District
Eric_s wrote:
Shit, you can recycle steel a lot before it's junk, and yano, we do. It's just that until recently it was cheaper to dig it out of the ground,
Actually, after water, steel is the most recyclable industrial material on earth. I worked at steel mill for a while, and was the fourth generation in my family to do so. When steel is properly sorted, it recycles incredibly well- that is, without down cycling.
Also, it has always been cheaper to recycle steel than to make it from iron. We've been recycling steel on large scales since the nineteenth century. We pull iron out of the ground because global steel consumption has been on a constant increase. So even though steel has the highest reclamation rate of any material, (barring precious metals) we still need more and more.
I would never buy a used carbon fiber part. Also, I would never buy a used bamboo component. This means one owner, then compost. I respect their craftsmanship and creativity, but if you want sustainable expansion of bicycle use, the bamboo trailer might be a much better choice.http://www.carryfreedom.com/bamboo.html
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