CM Events do not help the cause when you impact ordinary people's ability to get to work in order to make a living paying their bills.
Shoving your philosophy down the public's throat will always backfire resulting in pure hatrid for your cause.
Your CM events are agressive, confrontational with many of your members spewing anger towards those attempting to use the roads in a legal manner.
The recent Seattle police altercation only highlights CM's anti-social roots with fringe sociopaths being drawn in as members.
Your initial intentions may have started out as a communal "let's improve things" cause, however you have been infiltrated by those who just plain HATE other human beings and see your cause as a way to vent their sociopathetic impulses.
No, CM needs to clean its house and toss out those who if given the chance would normally rape and murder those weaker than themselves.
- BC
henry
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:34 pm
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
it's tough to do though. cm's not organized as a group, and can no more effectively weed out horrible people than society as a whole can. judging by the response though, there are a few folks out there who really hate critical mass and cyclists in general (plenty of "i would just run you over in my truck" type threats on the internet) but tons more who are supportive and recognize that as far as awareness events go it's barely even a blip on most people's radar. critical mass is far less disruptive than normal downtown rush hour traffic.
i'm not sure how you think that some hyper-aggressive king county sheriff's tackling an 18 year old without identifying themselves reflects badly on critical mass though. those cops were in the wrong, plain and simple. if anybody is a fringe sociopath, it's those guys.
if you'd like to see critical mass become a more positive event, i'd suggest you do the only thing i could figure out to do about it and show up on a bike at westlake center on the last friday of the month.
HillaryClinton
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:55 pm
Joined: 07 Jul 2006Posts: 20Location: New York City
Jesus Christ Bill. I have told you time and time again, you are RETIRED. I want you to march back home, do the dishes, pick up my dry cleaning, and get ready to serve me.
If you're not wearing the gimp costume by the time I get home tonight, there will be hell to pay.
josh m
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:42 pm
Joined: 09 Jan 2006Posts: 448Location: portland
"No, CM needs to clean its house and toss out those who if given the chance would normally rape and murder those weaker than themselves."
best quote ever.
I think 99.9% of people against CM either don't like bicyclists in general or are bicyclists, but are jealous that they won't participate themselves.
The majority of bikers I get that yell at me for cutting lanes, riding in traffic, etc... are just pissed because they're too afraid to do it themselves.
dennyt
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:13 am
rocket mechanicJoined: 02 Aug 2005Posts: 2708
Bill,
I don't know which city you've ridden Mass in, but I don't see anybody spewing hate in the Seattle critical mass. Maybe back in the '90s, but not now...
HillaryClinton
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:19 am
Joined: 07 Jul 2006Posts: 20Location: New York City
Denny, you sound like a man that knows how to handle a powerful lady. How about I send a private leer over your way and you come join me in New York for a little one on one?
daniel featherhead
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:21 pm
Joined: 16 Sep 2005Posts: 69Location: queen anne
make a pros and cons list.
Old Crow
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:03 pm
Helen Keller, WHAT?Joined: 30 Sep 2005Posts: 395Location: Ballard
I'm very pro Denny flying on a jet to get some play. What's to be con about?
dennyt
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:53 am
rocket mechanicJoined: 02 Aug 2005Posts: 2708
HillaryClinton wrote:
Denny, you sound like a man that knows how to handle a powerful lady. How about I send a private leer over your way and you come join me in New York for a little one on one?
Sorry Hillary, I'm only interested in girls on bikes.
nail
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:00 am
Joined: 01 Jul 2006Posts: 86Location: C.D.
Well, if pro- is the opposite of con- ... What is the opposite of Progress?
CM is definitely one of those hard to claim, hard to identify phenomena. As lantius points out, there is no formal "CM group" ... no leaders, no decision making bodies, just individuals coming together and riding, with a sort of spontaneous,-whoevers-in-front decision-making style.'
Its easy to paste blame on CM rides for stopping traffic because: (a) we're freakin' easy to identify since we don't look like cars, and (b) we move differently through traffic. Nobody leaps out of their cars and attacks trains when they block the road, no matter how annoying they are. I've never seen bottles fly at other cars that got stuck in a red light trying to sneak through an intersection. So CM will likely always be a bit of a target for car drivers.
That said, people are terribly selfish in this country (just past the era of "Greed is Good", people act like life is a war of all against all...). I seriously doubt that we can move people past the mindset of "I'm being stopped from getting to work!! <blame, blame, blame>".
All demonstrations do this (ie. prevent people from doing what they want), but people in other countries just deal with it.
I think people get particularly aggro at CM because we're preventing them from doing what they think they should be able to do (go to work... the horror!), AND we appear more vulnerable than cars, so they think they have some control in the situation.... as opposed to being delayed by an Ambulance, gridlock, trains, or accidents - where they have no control of the situation, and generally just put up with it. Thus they try to drive through the Mass, yell, get violent, etc. etc. we've all seen it.
Quote:
Shoving your philosophy down the public's throat will always backfire resulting in pure hatrid(sic) for your cause.
Funny, this quote: car drivers don't recognize that that is exactly what they do when they spew fumes, speed past pedestrians, and get aggro at anything that impedes "their" movement.
Hatred is a personal choice, there is nothing that requires you to get angry, you decide to do that yourself. Other peoples' hatred is not something anyone can control. The best we can do there is de-escalate the situation as best as possible.
Admittedly, CM is somewhat confrontational. And that will always get a response from people, espcially people with anger-management problems. But I don't think we're "shoving [our] philosophy" down anyone's anything.
What is the answer? I don't know. Probably a wider range of transit options in the area ... that and gas going up to $8/gallon... (I can hardly wait!)
dennyt
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:45 am
rocket mechanicJoined: 02 Aug 2005Posts: 2708
A paraphrase from the movie Pedal (one of two redeeming moments in an otherwise mediocre film):
NYC Taxi Driver wrote:
I mean, what are they thinking? Look (points at traffic) - this is a car thing! This isn't a bike thing! Look at all the motors! Bikes don't belong here!
Some people see things so clearly...
emile22
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:28 pm
Joined: 10 Jul 2006Posts: 1Location: Seattle
I have been on a few CM's that had an icky element of confrontation... bikers looking to pick fights and antagonize motorists. this was a couple years ago, and most of the mass voted w/ their wheels and stopped attending-- rather than attempting the "purges" you suggest. but the mass reconvened with the predominantly positive, uplifting, progressive tone and message it has had for many years... i.e., bikes are fun AND they are an intelligent form of transportation... especially in a city. it's strange, Bill, that you perceive CM as "spewing hate" and provoking/ promoting anti-social behavior. Bikes are incredibly social, and contrary to automobiles, they don't spew anything. It doesn't sound like you've been on a Mass. It sounds like you are a frustrated motorist. who can blame you?! being stuck in traffic sucks ass. which is just one of many reasons we ride our bikes. from my 5 years as a CM participant, i observe that most of the aggressive, anti-social, "spewing" comes from frustrated , stressed out motorists, not from the vast majority of cyclists who are Legally using the Public roadways... even if bending a few rules here & there (ever exceed the speed limit or roll a stop sign or make an unauthorized u-turn Bill?? you probably have, haven't you? minor infractions, but far more dangerous in a car, hunh?)
Razi
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:03 pm
Joined: 16 Dec 2005Posts: 866Location: Seattle
emile22 wrote:
Bikes are incredibly social, and contrary to automobiles, they don't spew anything.
This statement might be true of bicycles, but not of their engines. I was following a dude on the BG a few days ago and I nearly passed out when I rode through a cloud of his flatulence. He posted to fart, and either I slowed down from temporary asphyxia or he got a brief boost from the propulsion of gas venting from his bunghole (Denny, is this possible?)
Unfortunately, I am not really one to talk. I subjected my poor girlfriend to the same treatment the next day and she was not at all happy with me.
Oh ho ho guess who made a fart joke. Quel suprise.
_________________
lantius
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:44 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
Razi wrote:
emile22 wrote:
Bikes are incredibly social, and contrary to automobiles, they don't spew anything.
This statement might be true of bicycles, but not of their engines. I was following a dude on the BG a few days ago and I nearly passed out when I rode through a cloud of his flatulence. He posted to fart, and either I slowed down from temporary asphyxia or he got a brief boost from the propulsion of gas venting from his bunghole (Denny, is this possible?)
"a dude" = derrick.
derrickito
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