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langston
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:38 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
good news, thanks.
I dropped into the Bicycle Alliance today to bum a chain tool. Nice folks, and one of them asked how the FHR went... Not Chilly Hilly, but our ride :)
Aaron
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:00 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
Ron Sims wrote:
It prevents a priceless, 100-year-old corridor from being lost forever.
On one hand it is great that the land gets "saved" for people to walk their dogs and push their kids with baby joggers on (oh, and rollerblade). On the other hand it is sad that America doesn't use trains anymore to haul freight. In the low energy future, (google Peak Oil), we may start converting our trails back into rails.
As I understand it the lease on the Burke, for instance is only 99 years. I think the land is still earmarked for rail use.
But the loss would be pretty easy to take because of the few cars left on the streets.
gsbarnes
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:30 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
Aaron wrote:
Ron Sims wrote:
It prevents a priceless, 100-year-old corridor from being lost forever.
On one hand it is great that the land gets "saved" for people to walk their dogs and push their kids with baby joggers on (oh, and rollerblade). On the other hand it is sad that America doesn't use trains anymore to haul freight. In the low energy future, (google Peak Oil), we may start converting our trails back into rails.
As I understand it the lease on the Burke, for instance is only 99 years. I think the land is still earmarked for rail use.
But the loss would be pretty easy to take because of the few cars left on the streets.
As I understand it, Sims talks a good game about turning the Eastside line back into a rail corridor (or, more likely, rail next to trails). The current tracks suck, which is why the Dinner Train rolls along at what, 5mph? I believe the official line from Sims is that he's waiting for the Puget Sound Regional Council to study it and tell them when and if the corridor would be good for, say, an Eastside Sounder line.
The real issue, apparently, is that WSDOT wants to tear down the bridge over 405 and not replace it when/if 405 gets widened (an event which may be dependent on RTID passing this fall, an event which may be as likely as a snowball fight in hell). But anyway, if that bridge gets axed, it makes constructing rails or trails much more expensive, obviously.
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langston
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:38 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
I think that a Sounder line from Snohomish to Renton, with bicycle/jogger facilities alongside would do great things for fixing up the 405 nightmare. Right now, and forseably, there are no plausible options for commuters, freight or through-traffic loads.
If I were Ron, I would build it out as a bike trail for now, wait a few years for the Sounder lines to build out downtown, and then follow (what should be) the inevitable political will to run some gauge alongside.
The section between Snohomish & wherever it connects back up to the sprawl isn't going to get much traffic other than weekend squid-rides and the hardcore commuter anyway, that's Pickup Country out there. It's not like Sally Babyjogger is going to go throw down a 15 mile one-way run through what I bet is pretty remote territory. Wolves!
gsbarnes
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:46 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
langston wrote:
I think that a Sounder line from Snohomish to Renton, with bicycle/jogger facilities alongside would do great things for fixing up the 405 nightmare. Right now, and forseably, there are no plausible options for commuters, freight or through-traffic loads.
I agree. And for people who don't think you can do it, check out the 7-11 Trail next to/under Skytrain in Vancouver.
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joeball
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:49 pm
Joined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 6037Location: Ether
I wish they would publish bigger maps, this one is a little better. Directly from SDOT. This reminds me of a Thursday idea.
This will be a nice link up. I would like to see some single track all the way along this greenbelt on the east side of I-5 south to Tukwilla.
Colander park is interesting and all but I'm not much of a hucker.
langston
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:37 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
City Council Member Peter Steinbrueck;
announced he won't run in order to fight a viaduct rebuild or any tunnel in favor of a transit/boulevard rebuild.
http://www.thestranger.com/blog/2007/02/live_from_steinbruecks_announcement
so hmm... Our Hero* King County Commissioner Ron Sims, Sen "Baghdad" Jim McDermott, the City Council... how many other "leaders" need to be on board before the surface/transit option becomes accepted as a viable choice?
The way I look at it is that it is going to take at least five years before any rebuild or tunnel opens, if we can go for five years, why can't we just go without? Rebuild the West Seattle bridge to accomodate Heavy Industry, fix up I-5, rebuild 520 and get some Eastside transit with the money for a fricken tunnel.
Aaron
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:33 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
I sent in my ballot today. NO-NO.
Do the same! Do it now!
adpowers
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:27 am
Joined: 04 Apr 2006Posts: 164Location: U-District
That's how I'm voting, I just haven't gotten around to filling it out and mailing it in yet.
Spealunker
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:14 am
sargeJoined: 08 Sep 2005Posts: 308Location: Fort Bragg NC
Hey arron way to force your views on others. Vote how you think is right kids not how the old scary man tells you too
TrikerTrev
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:32 pm
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
Aaron wrote:
I sent in my ballot today. NO-NO.
Do the same! Do it now!
fuc that, my vote's for a tunnel. Something needs to be done and the viaduct is an ugly piece of shit scar to this city. Thats my opinion, god bless america!
Dragging the process out further just compounds the issue. There is no perfect solution, but choose for fuc sake!
Aaron
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:10 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
Trevor and Sean, you are both way scarier than me and more macho.
Voting no on both is a vote for Transit+Streets. Besides neither the tunnel or viduct help bikers. Adding more transit does help bikers because every bus has a rack. Also the street surface will get improved. Raise your hand it you have buckled a rim on Seattle's poor surface streets!
Besides, Public works projects like these always go way over budget. Like double! Anyways Transit+Streets is the default anyway, once they shut down the viaduct for at least 4 years (not 2-5, minimum 4 years!) It is way too risky to keep it open as it is. It should be closed right now because even a modest earthquake will bring it down. I took the walking tour 2 years ago and they said if it moved just 4 more inches it would be shut down. It was still moving at that time. The thing is full of cracks. Also the records are shoddy as to the quantity and quality of the rebar inside the concrete. The reason the one in SF went down was because of to little rebar. I remember reading an article in '89 that said it would have stayed up if the contractors had used more rebar.
lieutenantsean
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:25 pm
Joined: 10 Oct 2005Posts: 1255
not a king county resident. don't get to vote on it.
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gsbarnes
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:49 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
adpowers wrote:
That's how I'm voting, I just haven't gotten around to filling it out and mailing it in yet.
I'm really cheap, and waiting for the dropoff stations to open (Mar 8). But yeah, I've already voted no-no.
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adpowers
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:59 pm
Joined: 04 Apr 2006Posts: 164Location: U-District
Can you drop this one off? I thought it was mail only. Or is it only a few select locations?
gsbarnes
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:30 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
adpowers wrote:
Can you drop this one off? I thought it was mail only. Or is it only a few select locations?
It's only 5 select locations. If I don't manage to drop it off by the 10th, I'll just mail it. I was going to suggest we swing by one of the dropoff points on a ride, but the latest they're open is 8pm, and none of them are so close to the ride starting point that we're guaranteed to make it.
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davis
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:23 pm
Joined: 26 Aug 2005Posts: 113Location: The northern waste
Spealunker wrote:
Hey arron way to force your views on others. Vote how you think is right kids not how the old scary man tells you too
Actually, I was thinking of changing my vote to "YES, YES" just to annoy Aaron.
Hayduke
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:29 pm
Joined: 01 Feb 2006Posts: 677Location: Seattle, WA
That would be awesome, a new viaduct and a tunnel. Davis, you are a genius. It really is the only way to get all those cars in and out of the city efficiently.
Aaron
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:41 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
davis wrote:
Spealunker wrote:
Hey arron way to force your views on others. Vote how you think is right kids not how the old scary man tells you too
Actually, I was thinking of changing my vote to "YES, YES" just to annoy Aaron.
You can't annoy me cuz I barley know you! Let's drink more beer together then we rumble! Elevated tunnel? Underground viaduct? Either way, the vote result is meaningless but interesting.
You all realize it cost us ONE MILLION DOLLARS for a SURVEY, right?
Aren't there homeless or people without health care that could have used this money or something? All this so us white bitches can keep up the business as usual of bitching. I guess we can be glad we don't live in Iraq. The whole thing is just stupid.
Still, a No-No vote sends the message that the politicians just need to do their job and stop fucking around. Fucking Seattle Way.
MikeOD
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:44 pm
Joined: 04 Feb 2006Posts: 545
It's perfect! Put the viaduct in the tunnel, the top level of the viaduct will be at ground level to be used for the surface/transit solution. Everyone's happy.
henry
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:35 am
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
MikeOD wrote:
It's perfect! Put the viaduct in the tunnel, the top level of the viaduct will be at ground level to be used for the surface/transit solution. Everyone's happy.
Joined: 26 Aug 2005Posts: 113Location: The northern waste
Aaron wrote:
You all realize it cost us ONE MILLION DOLLARS for a SURVEY, right?
Indeed, that is the punchline to this joke. I'm sending in my 'no' votes anyway, but isn't this why we have public opinion polls? I'd actually trust the result of one of those over this vote.
john
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:46 am
AAAARRRRRGGGGbllll pppphtt!Joined: 26 Aug 2006Posts: 725Location: In the lab.
I voted for a viaduct...
at first I was nono... as this is just a dirty sign of our cities transit stupidity/corruption.
but then I thought about it and I really think the viaduct capsulizes cars and removes them from interacting with bikes more than any other option, and it also leaves a nice place under it to put a trolley, which is already partially there.
I like the viaduct... when I drive on it, I don't worry about hitting bicyclists, and when I ride to seattle, I feel like it is a "hey, all you cars into that artery, get off the road".
So, despite it being a bad idea... I like the plan that gets the cars most isolated. Besides, if we do have the "big Quake" a new viaduct will come down just like the old one and that will look way cool, whereas the tunnel will just slowly fill with water as the oceans rise and it will just be this eyesore of bad human planning( Oceans rising will never fill the tunnel fast enough so people can't get out, so no coolness there.). Anyway, I digress but there is a "what is more asthetically pleasing destruction regarding coming catastrophes" component also.
All things aside, I voted to compartmentalize cars. The money is going to be spent, they will spend a million dollars for a rigged vote just to get their project to have steam. You think any public opinion can waive them? These are the people that destroyed the monorail because it could have competed with "their contractors" construction projects. Now, that of course means it is a moot point as our mayor is getting paid off by someone who wants to build a tunnel, so what's gonna go is the tunnel. But... that there was a second rigged choice... that means that option has some corruption backing it... so it is a possible one...
I wish they could just throw all the cars up on these elevated byways, get them away from me.
Of course I wish we instead had a vote saying "Yes I would like a federal grand jury investigating elected official who spoke out against the monorail."
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:51 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
davis wrote:
Actually, I was thinking of changing my vote to "YES, YES" just to annoy Aaron.
I did that too. I want an elevated tunnel.
the dreaded ben
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:10 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
my money is on a chunnel.
jeff
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:15 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
This being Seattle I'm going to vote: yes! no!, ... well maybe.
gsbarnes
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:58 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
Okay, all you cheap procrastinators. Face it, you aren't going to get your ballot to the drop-off place. Just put a stamp on it and drop it in the mail.
I'm off to deliver my wife's ballot now.
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Finn
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:25 pm
AlabamaJoined: 15 Sep 2006Posts: 303Location: Central District
john wrote:
I voted to compartmentalize cars. I wish they could just throw all the cars up on these elevated byways, get them away from me.
On the other hand, It is only when drivers have plenty of experience sharing the road, that they will stop slamming into us. That's why it's so important to have lots of us out there, why bike trails aren't progressive, and why bike lanes are a joke. That's why I voted NO on both measures. Single occupany vehicles are drastically inefficient, let's quit subsidizing them. If there's no room for cars on Seattle's roads, let's lay off the cars, not build new roads.
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