1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
chupacabra is a pretty good name, but i might have preferred the "lugsley".
jeff
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:47 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
Bike lust?
How about a portable BBQ strapped on a bike?
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adpowers
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:56 pm
Joined: 04 Apr 2006Posts: 164Location: U-District
I was at the Fremont market yesterday and someone had a wood fired pizza oven on a car trailer. We need one of those on a bike trailer.
todd
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:04 pm
Joined: 12 Jan 2007Posts: 5
Those are the guys riding north to south. Val reinforced some Free Radicals for those guys. So far they have broken several normal FRs. There are pics somewhere.
zanimal
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:29 am
Joined: 06 Sep 2006Posts: 135Location: West Seattle
...and on the other end of the spectrum, there's Lime. What's the deal with this?
davis
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:34 am
Joined: 26 Aug 2005Posts: 113Location: The northern waste
zanimal wrote:
...and on the other end of the spectrum, there's Lime. What's the deal with this?
I feel the opposite of lust for that bike. But maybe that's just me and my unorthodox lifestyle choices.
the dreaded ben
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:20 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
the point of the lime is to get people that aren't riding to ride.
and that to me makes it a million times cooler.
joeball
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:03 pm
Joined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 6037Location: Ether
the dreaded ben wrote:
the point of the lime is to get people that aren't riding to ride.
and that to me makes it a million times cooler.
I'm just not convinced it will help people ride more, it still looks like a toy, or like it is competing for design awards like this site comments. I'd be curious to try one and see how the shifting feels but I don't think a standard 3-speed IG hub is that hard to grasp as far as shifting, and you don't have be pedaling like on a dreailure bike even.
I don't think they are doing anybody any favors by providing a "starter bike", what happens when you go beyond riding on a sunny Sunday afternoon, like maybe trying to ride at night, or when it is wet out or you want to carry more than an i-pod under your butt. The current issue of Bike Quarterly reviews the Breezer Uptown 8 and the Jamis Commuter 3.0. Both make a lot more accommodations towards a versatile city bike than the Lime does not. They both come with fenders and 8 -speed IG hubs with a better gear range. The Uptown comes with a rack, dynohub and lights and a nicer rear hub but also costs about 1000$ vs 500$ for the Jamis. BQ ended up preferring the Uptown and thought all of the up specs were worth the additional cost but it still seems to me like $1000 is a lot for someone trying to get into biking to spend on a bike. When I got serious and wanted a "real road bike" I spend less than that for a new Carbon/Al 105 equipped racer wanna be bike. I've since sold that bike and could justify and understanding buying a more functional bike that costs well over $1000 but that is after having accepted that bicycles are my thing.
I just don't think the Lime solves much, it seems more like people don't ride becasue it is, cold, dark, wet, too hilly, too "far"...due to any or all of those reasons. Rarely because they don't know how to push/pull a lever to shift. This is not the new Raleigh 3-speed which served a much more purposeful role for people in England as an affordable, efficient form of transportation, and they had, fenders, racks, lights and could be ridden in their work clothes.
I like the idea of a new bike that takes advantage technological improvements since the Raleigh 3-speeds were first made like lighter but durable materials, better gear ranges, efficent led lights, and can be produced and distributed in large numbers so that economy of scales can keep the price down but I don't think the Lime is it.
davis
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:40 am
Joined: 26 Aug 2005Posts: 113Location: The northern waste
joeball wrote:
I'm just not convinced it will help people ride more, it still looks like a toy, or like it is competing for design awards like this site comments.
I've certainly never come across anyone who said "I'd ride a bike to get around, if only I could store my iPod under the seat."
The problem is that it's difficult to sell physical activity to a public which has grown accustomed to products promising convenience and comfort. For most people who have bought into the sloth-encouraging consumer culture, it's going to take a bit more than an interesting bike to get them out riding.
zackalope
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:28 am
dr. mathJoined: 26 Oct 2005Posts: 132Location: On the outside of a Klein bottle
This http://novacycle.com/releigh_type_bicycle.html sort of thing seems to sell pretty well on the worldwide market. One could up the quality a bit, which of course ups the price, but starting at $30 means that there is lots of room to go before one hits the questionable prices of these recent attempts.
A quite similar model works for hauling loads just as severe as those that will ever be carried by the Chupacabra, but with not nearly the style.
Just make $5/day a middle class wage, and you'll see all sorts of people on bikes. Problem is, when it is an economic necessity, even fewer people think that riding bikes is fun. Living in India is making me doubt the "when gas hits $10/gallon" rhetoric. Gas here is more expensive than it is in the US in absolute terms, so at least $10 in relative terms, and passenger car sales are gaining quite a bit. Public transit usage is around 80%, but falling. CNG fuel is prevalent, notably in taxis and busses, so the air is not as bad as it could be...
Really, the fact that all the major companies are putting something like this on the market is an indicator that green is getting fashionable, and some designers are working to push that fact further. Bruce Sterling made some wishful comments in this direction a few years ago. http://www.viridiandesign.org/notes/1-25/Note%2000001.txt Green consumption is a new (and only somewhat oxymoronic) market in a lot of ways, and there are bound to be lots of mistakes.
The basic fact is that for many many people in the world, riding a bicycle for transportation is symbolically tied to poverty, and this view is held by many people who ride bikes for transportation. Whatever can be done to change this mentality is a good thing. If getting a bike like the lime or a car like a Prius becomes a fashionable thing that high profile people do with their disposable income, this can only be a good thing. The disposable income will exist, and the people who are designing and building these things will be designing and building things anyway. Better they come up with bikes than most other things.
Sorry to rant on your cool cargo bike post, Lee. That bike is awesome.
Aaron
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:01 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
The Shimano Coasting group on the Trek Lime is total junk. First of all the gear range is make for the beach. Second the parts are all plastic. Third, it is an ugly, dated product. Meaning it is made for style and bad style at that. A bicycle should not be fashon. Jesus, it will last longer than that. Leave the fashon to the department stores with their Barbie and TMNT bikes. Trendy. No offence to the fixie set, but your bike will be dated in short order. You will need new Deep-V's in the next new pink. Then again, I do agree with BtAH, that if it gets folks on bikes it is cool. Trek/Shimano will not be marketing this bike in Seattle or Portland. Too hilly. I saw this bike at Interbike. POS as far as I am concerned. I am a Raleigh dealer, however, and they are offering a Coasting bike if you have to have one. I bet the beauty covers of this "grouppo" will not be available as replacement parts so if you scuff them, sorry, no can fix.
Still...It is very trendy and hip.
Aaron
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:08 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
FYI, I rode a www.jorgandolif.com bike loaned to me by Todd from Clever Cycles last Tuesday in Portland. It is very similar to the bike that Zach posted. Very smart and fun to ride. It is indeed what most folks need. Our Leapfrog is similar in design and style.
What the Dutch, English, Chineese, Japanees and Indians have known for years: A simple, durable bike you can wear normal clothes in is easier and more comfortable to use than any other form of bike.
zackalope
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:02 pm
dr. mathJoined: 26 Oct 2005Posts: 132Location: On the outside of a Klein bottle
Aaron wrote:
FYI, I rode a www.jorgandolif.com bike loaned to me by Todd from Clever Cycles last Tuesday in Portland. It is very similar to the bike that Zach posted. Very smart and fun to ride. It is indeed what most folks need.
I think the $30 price tag was also pretty integral to that bike that I posted. Even accounting for a disparity factor or 10 in the economies of the US and India, the $900 price tag has an extra $300 or so that makes the bike a fashion statement of a different sort as much as it is something practical. It is certainly that too.
But my point is partly that as long as a low-cost alternative is out there (and it is, thanks to the department store bike and the crackhead bike thieves with ebay and craigslist access), making these sorts of things fashionable is only going to get more people on bikes, which is generally good. What I would like is if there were a market for a responsible option for a practical low cost bike. The Leapfrog is a neat design, and if I ever felt like spending a couple grand on a bike, it would be somewhere on the list. But I doubt that I would ever spend that much on a bike unless I built it myself. What would a $300 Leapfrog look like?
Now, I certainly don't approve of the idea of stores like ABR jumping through hoops to try to compete with Wal Mart or crackheads, which would be a stupid idea, but i think that carrying the Raleigh coasting bikes is a good thing. They may be plastic crap in lots of ways, but they are better than the even more plasticy crap at the department stores, and a jump from a $100 bike to a $500 bike is a lot more visualizable than to a $2000 bike. If these bikes succeed, then perhaps they will be improved.
I hate to make cost such an issue, but when I try to get my dad on something better than the Schwinn he got at Target, he doesn't see the point. And he rides that bike to his office a few times a week. On other days he drives his Lexus. If more bikes had a stylishness that aimed at the element that doesn't give a shit about road racing or mountian biking or hipsterizing, then maybe he'd notice the incongruity in style his two modes of transportation exhibit. But at this point, the acknowlegement of that sort of style's existence is pretty much limited to bike people and the people who indulge us when we show off our pretty bikes.
Blah blah blah blah I have insomnia so I'm ranting on the internet.
zackalope
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:11 pm
dr. mathJoined: 26 Oct 2005Posts: 132Location: On the outside of a Klein bottle
And the ultimate insult to Lee's original post - I'll mention that this http://www.raleighusa.com/items.asp?deptid=8&itemid=278 has a bottle opener integral to the frame. While it may be fugly, I kind of like it, in the way that I imagine pug owners must think that their dogs are cute.
Aaron
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:19 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
zackalope wrote:
On other days he drives his Lexus.
Until Peak Oil really starts to catch up with us, 2 grand will "seem" expensive, even though it isn't! The average person driving an average car spends something like 8 grand per year! A bike MAYBE will cost you $300 per year if you keep it in top form and have a shop do all the work.
And the average car costs like 40 grand to buy!
I am thinking here as a bike as a car replacement, not in addition to.
Aaron
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:52 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
From Flikerspace:
Note the chain!
That shiny (hi Denny!) metal hub cap is chome plated plastic. How long do you think it will stay nice and not crack off? Oh, and you can rest assured that Shimano will, of course, stock replacements.....NOT!
zackalope
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:30 am
dr. mathJoined: 26 Oct 2005Posts: 132Location: On the outside of a Klein bottle
Maybe when I come back I'll get one of those chains for my fixed gear just to annoy Aaron.
I LIKE the chain! Wasn't it clear? So hard to be sarcastic in the innertube.
I will probably stock the chain, and the grips look pretty keen as well.
Things I don't like about coasting are the hubs. But ugly with plastic break away parts.....
My main beef is with the electronics. I mean 3 speeds, auto shifting? I guess people ARE that stupid. For Seattle you need at least 7 speeds and a 22 T cog preferably with a 40T or smaller chainring.
zackalope
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:09 pm
dr. mathJoined: 26 Oct 2005Posts: 132Location: On the outside of a Klein bottle
I just talked to someone from London last night, and I guess that the British versions of the same roadster bikes like the jorg and olif bikes are 300 pounds (money, not lbs), so I'm not as shocked at the $900 cost (and is that Canadian?). Still, if they sell for $30 here, someone could make some money by importing them from India. Especially if they did it with one of these new fangled solar/wind powered hybrid sailing ships that I see floating around in the conceptual internet. Oh and apparently with all those fenders and coat/skirt flaps and so on, changing the rear tire is a pain in the ass.
I don't like the coasting's plastic hubs either, but I don't dislike them any more than I dislike carbon fiber bits on bikes that mostly ride on the burke gilman. for that matter, I don't really like carbon fiber bits on most bikes. but some people do, and they seem to sell well, so whatever.
The electronic automatic transmission sounds a little silly, but I think that it takes a bit of perspective to remember that things like "the small ring in front makes it easier to pedal, and the small cog in back makes it harder. push this lever to change the ring in front, and this one for the one in back, but only while you are pedalling..." By the third or fourth word, some people's eyes get a look that I'm familiar with from teaching differential equations. Now, an internally geared hub with one shifter makes this much easier, but still, some people want things even simpler. Ok fine. I've seen people use calculators to add 5+8. that's a bad example because I don't approve of that either...
Anyway, the reports coming from people who have tried these bikes seem to be positive in terms of the feel of the shifting and the ride in general. IDEO has some smart people working for them, and a lot of thought went into these bikes. I'm inclined to give them points for underlying motives (getting people on bikes) and the benefit of the doubt as to the quality of the stuff. Nobody is going to scrap their car and but one of these bikes, but they might use it to commute twice a week, and thus scrap a significant percentage of their car.
Aaron
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:41 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
A woman ran me and my son out of the cross walk last night because she couldn't remember which pedal to push (go or stop [aka gas or brake]) while she was on the cell phone. Americans suck. I just wish more would suck my dick!
How are the blow jobs in India. OK, that was a joke, but you get my meaning. I wish I was there riding around.......
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1337
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 6705
Location: right over
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 164
Location: U-District
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 135
Location: West Seattle
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 113
Location: The northern waste
Grumpy Greeb
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 5329
Location: flavor country
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 6037
Location: Ether
dr. math
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 132
Location: On the outside of a Klein bottle
