goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
I'd support public transit based on horse-drawn carts or hot air balloons.
Single occupant cars = BAD
Things that are not single occupant cars = GOOD
Aaron
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:51 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
Lee and Gregg, have you actually ridden the WT?
Cute, Dennis. Good for you. I honestly cannot believe you when you complain about the baseball traffic. Hello! Utah street?
Give me a break.
Less is more. The WT is unsustainable, just the same as driving everywhere. It is NOT mass transit, it is and always will be a political stunt.
Real mass transit to WS would have busses coming every 15 minutes or less instead of the 30 to 60 minutes they now come. Bikes perfectly compliment busses. People talk about busses polluting but they can be electric, CNG and Biodiesel. The WT is none of those.
Also,none of you have addressed the underwater noise pollution. Isn't that important? Or are our human needs so important as to supercede all other creatures needs? Land noise does not penetrate like underwater noise does.
Let the whales and other creatures sleep, will ya?
Not a single one of you can see the big picture. Human activity has got to be curbed by 90% if the earth is going to be able to support our activity at all. Debating modes is stupid. The WT is just the latest example of human stupidity. The viaduct is the next one.
mcrawfor
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:49 pm
Joined: 09 May 2006Posts: 1039Location: Ballard
Aaron wrote:
Let the whales and other creatures sleep, will ya?
Yeah, please, let's get some peace and quiet in this thread.
Also, ZOMG.
_________________ -miles
henry
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:12 pm
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
Joined: 12 Jan 2006Posts: 475Location: U-district/Ravenna
I wish everyone would stop talking about mass transit cutting down traffic. Mass transit won't stop traffic. Think about the cities that have badass subway and mass transit systems: London, New York, Washington DC, Tokyo, Chicago, Seoul etc... It's not like you can look at these cities and say, "Look, no traffic jams!" All mass transit is going to do is provide smarter people an alternative.
lantius
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:35 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
i'm with joby. i don't know why we don't have zeppelins back yet!
aaron, you're talking nonsense again.
coupdegrace
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:13 am
Joined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 168
Aaron wrote:
Cute, Dennis. Good for you. I honestly cannot believe you when you complain about the baseball traffic. Hello! Utah street?
Less is more. The WT is unsustainable, just the same as driving everywhere. It is NOT mass transit, it is and always will be a political stunt.
Also,none of you have addressed the underwater noise pollution. Isn't that important? Or are our human needs so important as to supercede all other creatures needs? Land noise does not penetrate like underwater noise does.
Let the whales and other creatures sleep, will ya?
Questions just questions:
Do you really think I'm cute? Golly I hope not!
Is Utah Ave not affected by stadium traffic?
Is any transit, other than human, animal or wind powered transit sustainable?
Don't we want to keep the whales away from the poisonous sludge in Elliott Bay?
Aaron wrote:
Debating modes is stupid.
Agreed. We all have and are entitled to our own opinions, be they right or wrong, who really decides?
Last edited by coupdegrace on Tue May 01, 2007 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
the dreaded ben
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:38 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
you should blow it up.
then they'll all rue the day society crossed aaron goss.
you'll have your sweet, sweet revenge.
Humans are so arrogant to think we are the only intelligent and important species on the planet. Why do we really need all these "options" for travel anyway? Can't we just stay put once in a while? Sadly it looks like our kids won't eat salmon or see a whale. But who knows, maybe humanity will suddenly see the erros of our ways.
Joined: 13 Dec 2005Posts: 1930Location: balls deepx
jeff
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:34 pm
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
Stop preaching to the choir.
the dreaded ben
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:36 pm
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
that's fucking it, derrick unplug this tardbarge.
gsbarnes
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:41 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
Aaron wrote:
gsbarnes wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Lee and Gregg, have you actually ridden the WT?
I don't know who this Gregg character is, but:
See you don't ride much anymore, and I have forgotten your name. Isn't it Greg?
Insert .83 Silver/Alzheimer's joke here.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
badhill
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:13 pm
Joined: 28 Feb 2006Posts: 260Location: Boston
Aaron wrote:
More boats = fewer whales.
Only as long as we keep building our boats out of whales.
_________________
joby
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:36 pm
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
You know, if the water taxi ran on whale oil, it would be carbon nutral!
derrickito
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 3:41 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
you're all onto something. lets EMPLOY the whales as taxis
Aaron
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:03 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
Intersting observations today.
The WT goes to an all white upper middle class neighborhood.
As I sat on the beach, the sound of the Vashon Island passenger only ferry's drone was quite loud. Amazing how loud they are even at 2 miles away. I can't wait until there are a fleet of mosquitos!
Even without a new Mosquito Fleet, the number of boats I counted was well over 15, just in my view.
Then Braxton and I rode over to Whale Tail Park. There was a nice plaque on the restroom wall talking about how smart whales are and how their bones transmit sound throughout their body like a big ear, how the authors wished that whales would return to their native waters the Salish Sea (aka Puget Sound). It was sweet!
pete jr
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:34 am
Joined: 13 Dec 2005Posts: 1930Location: balls deepx
you are all a bunch of hitlers for supporting the water taxi! think of our underwater allies.
the dreaded ben
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 9:23 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
i wish i could count how many times we've been called a bunch of hitlers.
but alas i only have 9 fingers.
Remington
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 10:04 am
Joined: 23 Jan 2006Posts: 457Location: Remington Country
Aren't these people worried about pirates!? Sailing is dangerous!
I think we're all missing the big picture here. What we need to do is get rid of transportation period. If people didn't need to move around, we wouldn't need cars, water-taxis, viaducts, monorails, or buses! Just stationary bikes. But not even those, because what's the point of staying in shape if you don't have to go anywhere? Remember, modes of transportation are all stupid.
coupdegrace
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 10:24 am
Joined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 168
Aaron wrote:
The WT goes to an all white upper middle class neighborhood.
Playing the socio-economic race card eh!
I don't see light rail or a monorail coming to W.Seattle.
How do you propose that folks from W.Sea get to downtown when the viaduct is out of service? Not go to downtown, I-5, surface streets? I remember riding my bike by the miles of cars, trucks and busses who where backed up on surface streets when the viaduct was closed after the Nisqually quake. Alternatives will be necessary for which ever viaduct plan is decided upon.
Do you honestly think that marine vessel traffic on the Puget Sound will be curtailed to save the Orca whales or any other marine specie?
Yes humans are arrogant enough to put their needs and desires before any other.
And who decided that we humans are intelligent? If we so smart, we solve problems before we create them. Instead we think we solve a problem but create another, that we were not smart enough to think of.
Peace and enjoy this earth and each other for as long as we are here.
joby
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:25 am
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
Government funded public transit is bad for the planet!
Aids is a myth!
Our civilization will end in the next few years, because of *teh peak oil*!
gsbarnes
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 1:43 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
pete jr wrote:
you are all a bunch of hitlers for supporting the water taxi! think of our underwater allies.
I see you've been brainwashed by the ecoterrorists. Here's THE TRUTH!
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
TrikerTrev
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:30 pm
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
oh for fucks sake!
Am I to believe your concern is for the few pods is to be justified by bashing walk on ferries? Please!!
If your concern is TRUE then focus your energy on the NAVYs refusal to stop sonar testing. I'm not gonna spend time digging up the articles (you can find a plethora of those on your own). You want to address a killer of sea mammals...THATS the biggie...not more damn motorboats.
and i'll add this, i'd rather the Orca population stay the fuck outta the sound. Not 'cause I wish them harm, but for their own damn good. The water is in shit shape (recent de-oxygenation issues), people can't stay the hell away from them (that baby one that died cause of human "intervention") and their food sources are contaminated (PCB don't leave the food chain, duh)!
...also, if they (the Orca) were concerned about water noise then why the fuck are they hanging out in SF bay? maybe they're all queer now?
nick
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 5:51 pm
Joined: 04 Sep 2005Posts: 99Location: Stockholm, Sverige
Happy Stick Person wrote:
but I bet people in SF bitch about it too...
Yup, all the time. I am one of them. I used to love Muni before I moved here, and still realize it is way better than Seattle's transit system. Having a train go within two blocks of my house (which is in SF, but quite far from downtown) has spoiled me enough that I really hate taking the bus now. Muni trains can be fairly unreliable; every couple of months it seems like they have to shut the subway down for an hour or more for some mechanical/electrical/computer failure. The train you want sometimes doesn't show up for half an hour when they should be coming at least every 10 or 15 minutes. These sorts of delays aren't that bad when I think back to some transit experiences in Seattle, but they seem really shitty once you are used to not having to wait more than ten minutes. So many people take Muni that when there is any kind of fuck up it generally results in really really crowded trains or buses due to the pileup of folks waiting, too.
Also, the fact that they closed the downtown subway for maintenance at 10pm for all of last year sucked. And all of this year they are closing the tunnel from Castro to West Portal, which affects the train I take home when I'm not biking, at 9pm. There's alternate bus service in these cases, but the buses are always super overcrowded and slow.
When I start bitching about Muni I usually realize it could be a lot worse and I should STFU and just bike the eight miles to work :)
pete jr wrote:
it is impossible to get from SF to berkeley/oakland late at night after the BART stops running without a very expensive cab. though i guess that's like people in bellevue bitching about the same thing.
Not true. There's been a bus that crosses the bay all night for the last year or so. I've never taken it though.
Happy Stick Person wrote:
MUNI runs 24 hours BART runs til like 2am to SFO and the east bay.
Muni service after 1am or so is really limited, enough that I usually try to go home before then if I'm not on a bike, but it rocks that there are some bus routes that go all night. They usually are really long routes that go all over the city and come infrequently, but hey it's better than nothing. BART stops running from SFO at about 11:45pm, which sucks ass when your flight is delayed and you miss the last one. I think pretty much every train in the BART system is done running by about 1am. But on New Years Eve BART and Muni both have a bunch of trains running all night long, for free. I took BART home from Berkeley at 3am or so one new year morning. So rad.
And WTF? There are whales where the water taxi runs? There are ferries, cruise ships, and huge ass container ships that go through Elliot Bay too, and I bet those are way worse for the whales. I like boats better than cars, even if they do burn fossil fuels. Especially if they carry more people than a car can. The water taxi isn't going to stop people from driving on the viaduct and West Seattle bridge, but I think it's still pretty cool. Even if only because it is cute.
Spealunker
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:42 pm
sargeJoined: 08 Sep 2005Posts: 308Location: Fort Bragg NC
Aaron your soap box is burning get down before you hurt yourself
Aaron
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:08 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
My whole argument against the WT is that it is not real mass transit. It is not the solution to the traffic on the West Seattle Bridge like the politicians say it is. All the other arguments are just reasons against it. It is a tourist thing.
Another reason it is not real mass transit is that it only runs half the year!
No one commutes in the winter, right?
Aaron
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:09 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
joby wrote:
Government funded public transit is bad for the planet!
Aids is a myth!
Our civilization will end in the next few years, because of *teh peak oil*!
And the Lawnmower Man is in your internets.
jeff
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:11 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
I'm sorry I started this retarded thread. Go ride your bikes.
Aaron
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:30 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
jeff wrote:
I'm sorry I started this retarded thread. Go ride your bikes.
No your're not! The internet is for arguing!
henry
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:33 am
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
Aaron wrote:
jeff wrote:
I'm sorry I started this retarded thread. Go ride your bikes.
No your're not! The internet is for arguing!
you should come to my arguing club sometime! I have a special permit that will let me bring unaccompanied people with no good arguments.
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goes to eleven
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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1337
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
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Location: right over
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Grumpy Greeb
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
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Location: No Fun Town, USA
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 1930
Location: balls deepx
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 260
Location: Boston
now with 50 percent more EVIL
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 10566
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 457
Location: Remington Country
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 2303
Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 99
Location: Stockholm, Sverige
sarge
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 308
Location: Fort Bragg NC
