Because the media has pumped up coverage 600% about violence in the time period. They're busy trying to scare the shit out of the average person. Because fear sells news programs really well.
_________________ When the revolution comes, we're going to need a longer wall
Alastair
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:37 am
Joined: 12 Jan 2006Posts: 475Location: U-district/Ravenna
Aaron wrote:
If violent crime is down, why are we so afraid?
Looks like you're using an outdated graph, or the newspaper's research isn't very good these days.
Crime nationwide is going down, but crime in the cities is on the rise. As far as the helmet issue is concerned, I didn't wear a helmet in Missoula, and I probably won't be wearing one in Amsterdam next month. I wear one here because drivers here don't expect to see bicyclists. There are so many cyclists on the streets in those cities, that it has become safe to ride without fear of a car not noticing you. I didn't talk to a single person in Missoula who said they had been hit by a car. Here, I've been hit 4 times. Almost every cyclist I talk to has stories of almost being hit or actually being hit.
I'm sure I'll be countered with the argument that helmets don't do anything, but I would invite any of you to find a trauma specialist at the hospital who claims to have worked on an equal number of helmeted riders and unhelmeted riders.
zuvembi
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:05 am
Joined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 942Location: Little Addis Ababa
Alastair wrote:
I'm sure I'll be countered with the argument that helmets don't do anything, but I would invite any of you to find a trauma specialist at the hospital who claims to have worked on an equal number of helmeted riders and unhelmeted riders.
Happy to oblige.
I imagine, given the rate of helmet usage in Seattle that many more helmeted people are treated for injuries. It also self selects in that a lot of people riding without helmets tend to be low income and/or without health insurance.
Of course no matter what the number they give, it's pretty much meaningless. The plural of anecdote is not data.
All the statistical population studies show helmets have very little effect either way. Except people keep pushing MHLs which prevent a lot of people from riding. Which is bad and makes it more dangerous for everyone who rides, regardless of whether they wear a helmet or not.
There are a few studies that claim minor benefits, but it's generally down in statistical noise.
The one study that claims zOMG effectiveness of 85% (Thompson and Rivara [1]) has been rather discredited. Using the same data you can show that helmets prevent 75% of leg injuries. Not a good study, in fact a shit study.
Short form: I don't care if you wear a helmet or not. I wear one about 95% of the time. Simply remember what test cycle helmets are designed against - a six foot drop with an unattached head form onto the ground. They are not a defense against serious crashes.
uk.rec.cycling wrote:
The energy required to fracture your skull comes in at around 700-1000 Joules. A cycling helmet is designed to cope with around 90-100 Joules.
The helmet energy absorption figure comes from the helmet testing
standards and varies a bit according to the standard but is sub 100J.
The fracture energy comes from Gurdjian, E.S., Webster, J.E. and
Lissner, H.R., "Studies on skull fracture with particular reference to
engineering factors" Am. J. Surg. 78(5), 736-742 (1949)
Interesting aside. Between 35-40mph, the extra mass of the helmet
cancels out the any reduction by the helmet of the impact energy. Above
that the helmet makes the net impact energy worse than without the helmet.
[1] Which is the number parroted in all sorts of helmet advocacy tripe.
Last edited by zuvembi on Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ When the revolution comes, we're going to need a longer wall
Aaron
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:13 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
I don't know if it is dumb luck or senility, but as I have gotten older, the number of times I have been hit by cars has gone down. Maybe I my .83 Silver spoke card makes me invisible! I wonder what Ro and David have to say?
gsbarnes
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:25 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
Aaron wrote:
I don't know if it is dumb luck or senility, but as I have gotten older, the number of times I have been hit by cars has gone down. Maybe I my .83 Silver spoke card makes me invisible! I wonder what Ro and David have to say?
I think as you get older you get more cautious. Or, if you will, smart. Like how I now instinctively don't like to pass moving cars on the right (like if you come up to a line of cars at a stoplight, and it starts moving). It just doesn't feel right to me, perhaps because I got nailed doing something similarly stupid when I was younger.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
TrikerTrev
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:21 pm
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
2 points to this;
a) we're talking about our kids vs us as kids. Back in "the day" helmets rarely existed to the masses like they do now. Regardless of the energy required to reduce skull fractures, the point is not to protect the bone, its to protect the BRAIN! Bone heals fractures well, the brain can swell with a mild concussion and lead to death. An injury called TBI (traumatic brain injury) is finally making forward progress as the medical tools are advanced enough to give solid research answers.
American Academy of Family Physicians, American Academy of Pediatrics. Management of Minor Closed Head Injury in Children (AC9858). Pediatrics 1999;104(6): 1407-1415 1999. Available at:http://www.aap.org/policy/ac9858.html
Gordon WA, Brown M, Sliwinski M, Hibbard MR, et al. The enigma of "Hidden" traumatic brain injury. J Head Trauma Rehabil 1998; 13(6): 39-56.
Jagoda AS, Cantrill SV, Wears, RL, Valadka A, et al. Clinical policy: Neuroimaging and decisionmaking in adult mild traumatic brain injury in the acute setting. Ann Emerg Med 2002; 40(2): 231-249.
Kibby MY, Long CJ. Review: Minor head injury: Attempts at clarifying the confusion. Brain Inj 1996; 10(3): 159-186.
Kushner D. Mild traumatic brain injury: Toward understanding manifestations and treatment. Arch Intern Med 1998; 158(15):1617-1624.
McCrea M, Kelly JP, Randolph C, Cisler R, Berger L. Immediate neruocognitive effects of concussion. Neurosurgery 2002; 50(5) 1032-1042.
Langlois JA, Rutland-Brown W, Thomas KE. Traumatic Brain Injury in the United States : Emergency Department Visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths. Atlanta (GA): Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control; 2004. Available at: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/TBI_in_US_04/TBI_ED.htm.
As for me, a insurance paying adult, if I choose not to wear one, i take the responsibility for what happens to me. The other part of this is simply that back in the day there were less drivers on the road and they were more likely to slow down for kids on bikes. this is not the case these days as drivers could give two squirts of piss whether they slowed for a kid or not.
b)As a father, I will require my children to wear helmets when ever they ride until they're old enough to pay for their own accidents. AND, it's me responsibility till my kids are grown to at least TRY to not become a cucumber...coupled with the state governments involvement if something happens to my kids and i have willingly let them ride with out a helmet. Can you say child endangerment?
...BUT...
As for the rest of the media vomit and scare tactics, electronic hoop-a-jew, and the general fear of scrapes, sprains and a broken bone or two... fuck all that shit. the media are vampires, technology for kids is absolute brainrot, and mild crashes build character (as long as you dont land on your unprotected melon).
Aaron
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:23 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
I love brain-rot shows like Scarred.
Agreed, Helmets are for the scared and the yong. As for me, my estate could easily pay for my injuries if I were to become a vegetable. Although, I hope they would cut the life line if my brain were gone.
But fuck all that! Driving (with your legs) a bike is SAFE! It is riding in a car that is dangerous! Full face helmets for all car passengers and operators!
gsbarnes
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:49 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
Aaron wrote:
I love brain-rot shows like Scarred.
Agreed, Helmets are for the scared and the yong. As for me, my estate could easily pay for my injuries if I were to become a vegetable. Although, I hope they would cut the life line if my brain were gone.
Dude, get an advance directive, talk to Gypsy and whoever else you give medical power of attorney to, and stop hoping.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
gsbarnes
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:52 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
gsbarnes wrote:
Dude, get an advance directive, talk to Gypsy and whoever else you give medical power of attorney to, and stop hoping.
Boy, and if that doesn't qualify me for .83 silver, I don't know what will.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
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