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n_claw

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:11 am

Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 517 Location: the only hill: Beacon

count me in. but really, let's DO THIS. so when to meet? where?

I propose Wednesday, July 25th for a preliminary meeting and ride-loop. however small, however large. I am almost completely booked up till that point, so I don't know how much I can get done prior, but I can start sketching slogans or something.

Then of course there's where to meet? Anyone in the area have a living room they'd be willing to give over to bikey folk for a couple hours?

I have some art supplies viable for signs, and I imagine if we pool resources we can get more materials together via dumpsters and what-not.

I think that being organized and clearly marked (as in signage/flyers) will get us the best impact. Mass is great, but we never have enough flyers/people willing to explain ourselves to Muggles well enough that they get it, ya know?

-Nova

laura

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:21 am

Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

I am in Eastlake (Boylston & Louisa) with minimal indoor space, but a large outdoor patio in the back. Of course, weather permitting.

henry

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:35 am

somewhat piggish Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 5415 Location: on porch with shotgun

Gasworks would be a good place to meet. There are lots of covered (and uncovered) picnic tables, and you're right by the scene of the crime.

I can come next wednesday.

Paul McCartney said it first, but GnR said it best:

When you got a job to do
You gotta do it well
You gotta give the other fellow hell

Of course in this case the other fellow is some idiot broad that's fucking with my bike shit.

_________________
winter men

derrickito

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:44 am

now with 50 percent more EVIL Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 10566

when you guys get some details together as a group. get me some of the final info and i can help get the word out to a bunch of bike groups, newsletters, and boards across the city.

key thing here is to be precise, explain what you want done by the city, why you are doing the action, exactly what the action will be, and what you need from people in terms of manpower, and when/where to meet.

^if someone can get me that info, ill help spread it around.

laura

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:52 am

Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

For what it's worth and hey, it may be cheesy, but I wrote to Susan Paynter at the seattlepi and presented both the Burke situation & Stone Way disappearing lanes with all the official city of seattle/stranger/cbc links so she can research it on her own as well. Maybe some additional text by her can generate interest? Shame the city into doing the right thing? Who knows.

DOUG.

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:01 pm

Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Wallingford

I'm in.

Also, Suzie Burke's office is located at 3401 Evanston, Suite A, which is directly atop the Red Door. I'd love to avoid the businesses for which she is the landlord. Unfortunately that includes PCC.

Last edited by DOUG. on Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

n_claw

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:02 pm

Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 517 Location: the only hill: Beacon

Okay, Gasworks sounds ideal to me, as well--Laura's is further uphill of my commute back North.
I split from work at 4, so I can be there by 5 or so, with wiggle-room for a bite between, let's say 5:30?
What-say, all?

What: meeting of concerned cyclists to make signs and ride bikes around Fremont, following all traffic laws, and informing observers of the city's actions concerning the Burke-Gilman closure, reneging on the Stone Way bike lanes, as well as informing them of our displeasure and hopefully riling up some displeasure within them, as well.
When: Weds. July 25th, 5:30pm-?
Where: Gasworks (centre ourselves around the steam engines and we can scout accordingly)
Who: you. and anybody else interested in local bike advocacy who would like to ride or participate in an ongoing discussion or contribute time/resources to signage/flyers/etc.
Bring: supplies for signage, incl. paper/paperboard, markers, poster-paint/brushes; fresh ideas and perspectives; drafts for flyers/posters;
your bike for a loop around Fremont and the appropriate safety gear for riding at dusk (lights! helmets! brakes!)
Why: The City of Seattle is neglecting the needs of cyclists in favor of big developers, which puts the safety of cyclists at risk. Cyclists are traffic, cyclists are citizens. Public needs should trump the private sector, not the other way around.

I'm not sure how eloquent this is, Derrick, but it's better than no info at all, yes? And please, if anyone would like, please edit.

I'll re-post on the ole blogosphere and FWD to other folk in my network. You all, do the same.

-N*

laura

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:10 pm

Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

do we want mini-flyers with said info to hand out at stop lights and such to inform others? Leave at bike-friendly businesses (of which PCC BETTER be one of them) and what-not? I can supply 8x 11 xeroxs cut into quarters if we want to collaborate on text.

langston

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:14 pm

Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 5547 Location: Columbia City

laura wrote:

yes.

the dreaded ben

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:16 pm

Grumpy Greeb Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 5329 Location: flavor country

what the fuck is going on?

i'm to lazy to read this whole thread.

laura

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:19 pm

Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

langston wrote:

laura wrote:

yes.

and by "yes" you mean:

a. you want mini-flyers
b. PCC is bike friendly
c. you will collaborate on said text
d. all of the above
e. none of the above
f. some other witty answer that i can't be bothered with at the moment

langston

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:20 pm

Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 5547 Location: Columbia City

laura wrote:

a, c, and f.

laura

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:22 pm

Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

bastard!

n_claw

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:22 pm

Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 517 Location: the only hill: Beacon

laura wrote:

bastard!

You totally set yourself up for that one.

Just sayin.

derrickito

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:43 pm

now with 50 percent more EVIL Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 10566

Quote:

What: meeting of concerned cyclists to make signs and ride bikes around Fremont, following all traffic laws, and informing observers of the city's actions concerning the Burke-Gilman closure, reneging on the Stone Way bike lanes, as well as informing them of our displeasure and hopefully riling up some displeasure within them, as well.

couple of questions here.
if this is because of the stoneway bike lanes, and the fremont closure... want to make sure you people have your facts straight

bike lanes on stoneway. i was on stoneway yesterday and stone way HAS new bike lanes going up and down it, they are completed at the top and are working their way down... so im asking, WHAT's the issue with stone way? the construction is still being finished and painted, but it's all marked out for bike lanes. whats the issue here then?

as for the burke gillman, to quote myself from earlier "apparently that section of the trail is an easement, with the developer reserving the right to close that section for development when needed"
so that developer is in every legal way covered for closing that trail longer. we wouldnt have the burke if it wasnt for the donation from the develop im assuming... so my question being... What are you trying to accomplish here? put pressure on the city for standing up to it's obligations? or trying to put pressure on the developer to look at another option during construction?

im all for bike activism, but make sure facts are checked first, make sure you arent fighting for something that's currently being painted on the street as we type, dont jump in blindly

:)

derrickito

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:47 pm

now with 50 percent more EVIL Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 10566

i just read the entire stoneway thread. i see the issue now, a gap for 6 blocks with no bike lanes. that makes sense.

explain that better in the description above?

langston

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:51 pm

Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 5547 Location: Columbia City

derrickito wrote:

bike lanes on stoneway. i was on stoneway yesterday and stone way HAS new bike lanes going up and down it, they are completed at the top and are working their way down... so im asking, WHAT's the issue with stone way? the construction is still being finished and painted, but it's all marked out for bike lanes. whats the issue here then?
What are you trying to accomplish here? put pressure on the city for standing up to it's obligations? or trying to put pressure on the developer to look at another option during construction?

any good PR firm has a fact checker. Good job, Derrick, for bringing this up.

1. The original BMP had Stone Way going on a lane diet with an uphill "sharrow" lane and a downhill bike lane and three lanes of through-traffic. This has been reduced due to local pressure to no bike lanes for about 6 blocks. This is non-tenable as there is a ton of existent and potential bike traffic, it is a great potential through-fare connecting the bicycle route infrastructure and the standard bike lane in that area is dangerous due to copious on-street parking.

2. Irregardless of any hostilities held towards Suzie Burke, "trying to put pressure on the developer to look at another option during construction?" is the goal, since it's BS to hold private interests above the publics'.

n_claw

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:53 pm

Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 517 Location: the only hill: Beacon

yes (advise on clarity?):

*The city has backed out of planned improvements to Stone Way bike lanes that would have linked the Burke-Gilman trail to greater Fremont between 34th & 40th, instead deciding to leave a six-block gap.*

what do you think? I am less concerned about the Burke closure, myself, particularly with your insight, altho I'm still a bit malcontent.

bah, i could use a good editor on this one, i feel like it's getting _more_ muddled rather than less so.

Last edited by n_claw on Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

laura

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:53 pm

Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

derrickito wrote:

Quote:

Just my $0.02 here, but I am sick, sick, sick, sick, sick of every damn sidewalk and in this case, the Burke, being closed for infinite periods of time so developers can do their thing. Go ahead and complete the construction and by all means, keep me safe. However, the blanket disregard for peds & cyclists all throughout the city is unreal. South Lake Union. Met Park area. Downtown. Eastlake & Fairview. Fremont for those stupid St. James/John/whatever condos ... the list keeps going. If sidewalks & other pathways had $$ on them for every day they were obstructed, I bet they wouldn't be closed as long. That or have the developers make tunnels and what-not (worked downtown by the Sheraton) so peds & bikes can travel without issue, still be safe, and construction can still happen.

At this point, they just close everything and we re-route and re-re-route and damn it, I am sick of it.

gsbarnes

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:57 pm

Joined: 15 Aug 2006 Posts: 2666 Location: No Fun Town, USA

I realize I'm being an asshole by not actually doing anything (I won't be in town on the 25th or 27th (CM, which I never attend, anyway)), but I have another, additional idea: Try to make these signs like those 'No Iraq War' signs from a few years back.

By which I mean:

Set up a website, and put the name of the website prominently at the bottom of every sign.

In addition to info about the cause, put jpgs or gifs or pdfs of the sign(s) on the website, so the DIY'ers can make their own.

Print out some signs, laminate them, and drop them off in a place where people who are too copy-center-phobic can just go pick them up.

Put the signs everywhere: on your bike, in your car, in your living room window, whatever. Make people pledge that every time they're in Fremont (or LFP, or whatever is appropriate) that they do a lap across the bridge. Organize a race in Fremont where everyone has to have one visible. Put the damn things out there.

[It would be better, for these 'official' signs, that they be more generic, talking about the Mayor and the City instead of Ms. Burke, for a few reasons: first, you could reuse them the next time some dork neighborhood tries to do the same thing. Second, you're much less likely to get lawyers after you if you rag on the mayor than if you start making statements about a much-less-public figure. Third, if this really takes off, then either Nickels has to become the bike-friendliest politician in America, or we start seeding the ground for an opposition candidate who is.

Which is not to say that you shouldn't make signs about Ms. Burke or the Fremont situation, just that maybe having 1000 signs that say something like 'Seattle's Bike Master Plan: Buy a Car' would serve us better than 1000 that say 'Suzie Burke pegs Fremont Bikers with a 10 foot dildo']

_________________
I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions

n_claw

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:01 pm

Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 517 Location: the only hill: Beacon

laura wrote:

the blanket disregard for peds & cyclists all throughout the city is unreal. South Lake Union. Met Park area. Downtown. Eastlake & Fairview. Fremont for those stupid St. James/John/whatever condos ... the list keeps going. If sidewalks & other pathways had $$ on them for every day they were obstructed, I bet they wouldn't be closed as long. That or have the developers make tunnels and what-not (worked downtown by the Sheraton) so peds & bikes can travel without issue, still be safe, and construction can still happen.

At this point, they just close everything and we re-route and re-re-route and damn it, I am sick of it.

agreed. getting to/from DT every day is fucking unreal. i don't even trust myself to bike it before coffee in the AM. so. i think we _should_ tackle these things one (maybe two?) at a time, but I'd like to think we could put together an ongoing project here that would really create positive change for us as bikers and peds. i'd like to stay car-free, and i'd like to feel safe and supported doing so. i'd like my city to recognize that these are viable, even DESIRABLE alternatives to auto-traffic. i don't have money to throw around on the issue the way developers do, but I do have a body with two able hands and strong legs. oh yeh, and a half-way decent head on my shoulders.

so. let's pool resources. and let's do.

-N*

laura

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:05 pm

Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

can I get an "amen"!!!!

this can certainly be back-burnered if need be. it's not like this situation will change in the near future and maybe i just needed the soapbox for a minute.

gsbarnes

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:09 pm

Joined: 15 Aug 2006 Posts: 2666 Location: No Fun Town, USA

derrickito wrote:

as for the burke gillman, to quote myself from earlier "apparently that section of the trail is an easement, with the developer reserving the right to close that section for development when needed"
so that developer is in every legal way covered for closing that trail longer. we wouldnt have the burke if it wasnt for the donation from the develop im assuming... so my question being... What are you trying to accomplish here? put pressure on the city for standing up to it's obligations? or trying to put pressure on the developer to look at another option during construction?

To throw out some memory-and-conjecture-as-facts: There used to be a rail line through Fremont, just south of 34th. At the Bridge approach, it probably deviated slightly south to go under a little tunnel. (I can't be sure, since that whole area was pretty much verboten).

This is (I gather) the right-of-way that became the Burke. You'll note that the current Burke does not follow this route. I assume the city worked out a deal whereby they swapped the old rail right-of-way for a new right-of-way near the water, presumably to reduce the number of street crossings. This is the point where they got said easement.

As we can now see, this was a dumb deal. Nonetheless, it's done, and I don't know if the city has a legal leg to stand on.

The remedy, I believe, should be twofold: first, the developer should be made aware that we don't like having the Burke closed again for so long, and she should look harder for ways to reduce or remove the burden on bicyclists. Second, the city should definitely reduce or remove the bicycle impact. This is just like the bullshit closure of the Myrtle Edwards Trail last year. Little warning, no options, just tell bicyclists to reroute. The city should do more to mitigate the burden on bicyclists.

As an example, over on the Cascade forums someone suggested they install a bike signal where the Burke Gilman detour starts (34th and Stone) so that people aren't so tempted to make bullshit moves like riding against traffic on 34th until there's an opening to move into the westbound lanes. I'd further suggest that some streets west of the Bridge should be closed to automobile traffic, or at least made one-way as the section of 34th just west of the bridge is.

_________________
I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions

henry

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:37 pm

somewhat piggish Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 5415 Location: on porch with shotgun

how do you feel about seattlelikesbikes.org?

_________________
winter men

coupdegrace

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:41 pm

Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 168

Fremont Outdoor Movies - Save the World Night

Saturday, July 21 - Movie: An Inconvenient Truth
Bring your bike for the "Bicycle Fashion Show"!

It would be really cool if the weather would cooperate and if this activist effort you are proposing could all come together tomorrow night.
Not likely though.

Activists are the foot soldiers of Advocates.

n_claw

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:43 pm

Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 517 Location: the only hill: Beacon

henry wrote:

how do you feel about seattlelikesbikes.org?

I really like that myself.

Let's clarify our goals a little here (Greg, I wish you could be there on Weds, thank you for all of your tres excellent input!):

1) Stone Way needs bike lanes that link the Burke to greater Seattle. a gap between 34th & 40th is UNACCEPTABLE.

2) Seattle needs to LISTEN to the bike plan's recommendations, as well as the biking community.

3) Constant closures/re-routes of area's like the Fremont section of the Burke, etc. are also at unacceptable levels. We would like the city to impose monetary deterrents to closing sidewalks/bike lanes/multi-use paths for extended periods of time.

Edit: We will also advocate for safe alternatives where closures/detours are made necessary.

4) We will ride bikes and advocate for these causes by communicating not just amongst ourselves, but also with the greater community including: the mayor, city council, city planners, other bikers (Cascade, Fast Friday, random commuters, drunken hobos on bikes, etc), business owners, and etc.

okay, back to pretending i'm as impassioned about my job as riding bikes and community-planning.
-N*

henry

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:51 pm

somewhat piggish Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 5415 Location: on porch with shotgun

n_claw wrote:

henry wrote:

how do you feel about seattlelikesbikes.org?

I really like that myself.

Ok it's done then.

_________________
winter men

SeditiousCanary

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:51 pm

sorry, can't make it! Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 2315 Location: Fremont Troll

n_claw wrote:

Edit: We will also advocate for safe alternatives where closures/detours are made necessary.

No, we want rotating knives, land mines, and AGIS targeting systems on Ruger 10/22s to make it more fun when choosing a new route.

n_claw

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:55 pm

Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 517 Location: the only hill: Beacon

SeditiousCanary wrote:

n_claw wrote:

Edit: We will also advocate for safe alternatives where closures/detours are made necessary.

No, we want rotating knives, land mines, and AGIS targeting systems on Ruger 10/22s to make it more fun when choosing a new route.

I prefer a fair fight myself: all fists and words. well, perhaps a few guttural grunts, as well.

DOUG.

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:58 pm

Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Wallingford

I believe you can find the document that gives Suzie Burke's company permission to use the space under the Fremont Bridge HERE. Type "115141" into the Council Bill No field.

I'm no lawyer, but there seems to be wording regarding the effect that the closure has on public safety, and if it's deemed a hazard, Suzie Burke must reliquish use of the space. Then again, I could be totally wrong.

the dreaded ben

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:58 pm

Grumpy Greeb Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 5329 Location: flavor country

as a general rule of thumb, the world needs more "rotating knives."

n_claw

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:12 pm

Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 517 Location: the only hill: Beacon

DOUG. wrote:

I'm no lawyer, but there seems to be wording regarding the effect that the closure has on public safety, and if it's deemed a hazard, Suzie Burke must reliquish use of the space. Then again, I could be totally wrong.

I may be a college drop-out, but I can still read and scratch my squito bites at the same time, and I do believe you're right.

Anyone aware of any accidents that have occurred as a result of the Burke closure? As a formerly less urban cyclist, I feel uneasy riding the re-route, and I've seen some near-misses, but thankfully never any hits.

gsbarnes

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:26 pm

Joined: 15 Aug 2006 Posts: 2666 Location: No Fun Town, USA

DOUG. wrote:

Sorry, I don't see it. The ordinance (referring back to a much older agreement) basically gives Fremont Dock (Burke's company) the right to use the area under the Fremont Bridge (the 'Use Area') in exchange for a 25 foot easement starting under the bridge and heading east. Presumably the Burke is built on this easement (and presumably someone else owns/owned the trail to the west).

Most of the ordinance discusses this Use Area, in particular, the bits about public safety. So, for example, the Fremont Dock Company probably can't store nitroglycerin in the Use Area, as that would be threat to public safety. Little is said in the ordinance about the easement; it's mostly covered in Section 14, which says the city and the Fremont Dock company must craft an easement agreement, whose text is not in the ordinance. Presumably it is this agreement which gives Burke the right to shut down the Burke.

Edit: what I wonder is what happened to the Burlington Northern main line (referenced in the ordinance), which clearly is no longer used, which I believe ran just south of 34th (e.g., the section bordered by Speedy Reedy), and which presumably is now in the hands of the Fremont Dock Company, since it comprises the northern part of the Adobe parcel and the parcel Burke is now developing. I suppose it's possible Burlington-Northern itself had an easement from an older property owner, which was transferred to Fremont Dock when the land was sold, but usually in this neck of the U.S., the railroads owned their land outright.

_________________
I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions

henry

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:34 pm

somewhat piggish Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 5415 Location: on porch with shotgun

this is up

I'll probably just put a wordpress install on here and then we can figure out where to take it.

_________________
winter men

laura

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:37 pm

Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

henry wrote:

this is up

I'll probably just put a wordpress install on here and then we can figure out where to take it.

wooooooooooooooweeee!!

:D

FieryIrie

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:44 pm

Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 554 Location: Wallingford

henry wrote:

this is up

I'll probably just put a wordpress install on here and then we can figure out where to take it.

Yeay!

Anyway, I'm another body for activism. I'll be there Wednesday and see if I can gather up some other bodies to join. I'll even put the word out there to the scenster Cap Hill kids and Eastside riders etc.
Have we been doing anything more than talking on the forums? Do people other than .83 know this is happening?

Oh! Can I ask one of the first things you do for seattlelikesbikes is put up the point of our mission in a format that people can print out and hand out? I immediatly know of a bunch of places I could drop off flyers stating what's going on to try and get some people out.
It would be good to also post the info for the various meets that are planned.

ksep

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:57 pm

Joined: 27 Jan 2007 Posts: 1879 Location: Westlake

Speaking of the Cap Hill kids, I bet Re-Load Baggage and Cadence Clothing wouldn't mind hosting a stack of flyers by the cash register.

And the local bike shops in the area too. Freerange Cycles stocks the .83 ladies calender, no? And don't we have a hookup at Wright Bros in the club as well...

_________________
-Kevin

Joe

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:04 pm

Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 430

abamfici wrote:

And don't we have a hookup at Wright Bros in the club as well...

If it involves a fight against the city, I'm sure Charles is down.

laura

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:24 pm

Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

sooooo - we need a flyer. Who's flyer savvy around here? I can make copies to distribute to .83ers tomorrow or Sunday so we can then distribute around our respective haunts. But, I needs me a flyer.

henry

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:27 pm

somewhat piggish Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 5415 Location: on porch with shotgun

laura wrote:

sooooo - we need a flyer. Who's flyer savvy around here? I can make copies to distribute to .83ers tomorrow or Sunday so we can then distribute around our respective haunts. But, I needs me a flyer.

What is the purpose of this flyer? Are we advertising a specific event? The meeting on Wednesday?

_________________
winter men

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