_________________ Tacoma isn't that bad... well maybe it is
laura
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:25 am
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
Question:
Are we combating just the Stone Way issue with our grassroots citizen group (thank you Cascade, sounds so hippie!) efforts starting today OR are we lumping the continued Fremont B-G closure in there as well?
I ask because it was easy to borrow from the Cascade newsletter for blips about Stone Way. They fit easily into a little flyer. Now, the flyer has a 2nd side ... should it stay blank? Should it have info about the Burke? And then DOUG. just posted about the Burke closure further up north ...
thoughts & direction?
n_claw
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:36 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
laura wrote:
Question:
Are we combating just the Stone Way issue with our grassroots citizen group (thank you Cascade, sounds so hippie!) efforts starting today OR are we lumping the continued Fremont B-G closure in there as well?
thoughts & direction?
My thought is that for the time being we focus on these two issues, both in Fremont, and that later on we can broaden our scope as desired. Henry even registered likesbikes.org so we could have 'splinter cells' like portland.likesbikes.org or what-not. altho I have to say, PDX is a bikey dream-town, and I'd love to see Seattle on par with it.
Hope to see you all this evening.
-N*
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:10 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
n_claw wrote:
Hope to see you all this evening.
I'll bring "Hello, my name is" tags as long as we only use our message board names on them.
the dreaded ben
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:40 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
SeditiousCanary wrote:
I'll bring "Hello, my name is" tags as long as we only use our message board names on them.
i'll assume henry's tag will just be a sketch of a penis.
some mad jackie treehorn style.
laura
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:58 pm
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
and a classy set of grassroots activitsts we are!
See you folks in two/too/to/2/zwei/etc.
henry
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:11 pm
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
Newbie kAsk@de kid here,
Three comments:
1) I have a direct line into the Quadrant (aka Adobe/Getty) Development tenants group and a contact in Adobe's bicycle group. Adobe has a huge, sweeet bike cage (complete with workbench and wheel truing stand). I'll put fliers up on it. I think it is only fair to give the tenants here a heads-up and a map with routes around our ride, and I can do that, but a number of folks here are also quite supportive and I expect that some will drive around in circles with us a few times just to make it that much more congested.
2) When we talk to other riders, especially if the cops are thick, I think we need to make sure to keep this legal and watch to make sure we aren't delaying more than 5 cars. If a pair of us has empty space in front of us and 5 cars behind us, we should keep it legal, drop to the side and let a set of cars through and then resume our original positions. The point is to legally clog traffic, not illegally block traffic, right?
3) If you want something else posted over in the Cascade forums, let me know and I'll take care of it.
henry
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:58 pm
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
Agreed, also it would make sense to use the bike lanes when they are available, as that's what we're trying to protect.
I entered the incident where I was hit this past April going South on Stone Way.
Keep me in the loop as I'd be happy to post flyers. My email got on 2 lists tonight--it is jld....@gmail.com and I'm in the North end of the city. I work in Belltown and will print some tomorrow for my building bike cage and whereever else I see that needs a flyer. I will be at CM this Friday.
Cheers--
Protein Man (aka yet another Jeff)
henry
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:13 pm
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
Speaking of ghostcycle, I have an old schwinn that would love to be donated to the People waiting for the Interurban statue if anyone has a good artistic way to incorporate it.
derrickito
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:56 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
flyers are being built now, and the date got figured out at the meeting tonight. we'll get that info posted as it's ready so people can print it all out and spread it around
i think it's ok to let the cat out of the bag about who did the ghostcycle project, it was Point83. we havent done it since the first time, the entries arent really being recorded and used anymore... but if someone wants to paint a white bike and put it down there the day we do this ride, i dont think anyone would object
hey nova, when you get the flyer info ready, PM it to me? ill get it in PDF format and run it by david hiller, and henry can get it up on the seattlelikesbikes site
coupdegrace
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:46 pm
Joined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 168
snyd3282 wrote:
Newbie kAsk@de kid here,
...I think we need to make sure to keep this legal and watch to make sure we aren't delaying more than 5 cars. If a pair of us has empty space in front of us and 5 cars behind us, we should keep it legal, drop to the side and let a set of cars through and then resume our original positions. The point is to legally clog traffic, not illegally block traffic, right?
How during rush hour can it be determined if it is bikes or cars that are delaying 5 or more vehicles when the congestion is so great that there are routinely vehicles one after the other for several blocks?
TrikerTrev
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:16 pm
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
coupdegrace wrote:
snyd3282 wrote:
Newbie kAsk@de kid here,
...I think we need to make sure to keep this legal and watch to make sure we aren't delaying more than 5 cars. If a pair of us has empty space in front of us and 5 cars behind us, we should keep it legal, drop to the side and let a set of cars through and then resume our original positions. The point is to legally clog traffic, not illegally block traffic, right?
How during rush hour can it be determined if it is bikes or cars that are delaying 5 or more vehicles when the congestion is so great that there are routinely vehicles one after the other for several blocks?
agreed!
Does that detail actually get enforced in the city limits? I can understand in rural areas, single highways, but in town? Heck, i've ridden Metro buses that break law.
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
snyd3282
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:18 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
coupdegrace wrote:
How during rush hour can it be determined if it is bikes or cars that are delaying 5 or more vehicles when the congestion is so great that there are routinely vehicles one after the other for several blocks?
I can only speak for myself, as a slow cyclist when I am climbing hills, if I have 5 car-lengths open in front of me and 5 cars behind me, I'll pull over for a few seconds.
Although, since all of our up-hill is on (currently) two lane roads, I'd think that we would be okay if we keep the left lane clear and for the one intersection where we need to make a left onto Bridge Way, just make sure that we let cars merge in with us and through us so we don't trap them.
The beauty of gridlock is that ideally there won't be any gaps and cars will be moving as slowly as I am so we won't have to worry about it.
snyd3282
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:29 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
I just noticed some updates to the website that say that we are riding clockwise around the route. Didn't we want to go counter-clockwise so we will be climbing Stone Way to show the need for a slow climbing bike lane?
derrickito
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:38 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
yeah. counter clockwise i thought was the idea.
henry is probably drunk again
laura
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:41 pm
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
Maybe it's just me, but I feel good about this. Felt good about the group, the diversity of those in attendance, the fact that random people riding by took flyers, were supportive, and wanted more information. Everyone wanted more info. People want to get involved. We can dooooo this!
For those unable to attend, a variety of ideas were discussed:
- Cascade is developing signs that "pro-Stone Way & B-G tail" businesses can post so we all know who is supporting cyclists in the area.
- We are going to get the businesses that rejected the Stone Way bike lane so we can try and chit chat with those owners and demonstrate how cyclists are customers and why they should support the bike lane.
- Fremont & Wallingford neighborhoods and neighborhood associations support the Stone Way diet. Goal is to work neighborhoods and encourage people to get vocal in talking with city officials.
- Cascade will be doing more regular counts on Stone Way in upcoming months - always on Thursdays from 4:30-6:30pm.
- People that work for businesses & companies that rent from Miss Suzie Burke can petition their supervisors and such. Voice concerns from all angles.
- Critical Mass will get flyered like all hell ...
Met a cool guy after most people had left ... Ryan, I think? (Seriously, I suck remembering names. Nothing personal!!!) rydin [at] mac.com. Whoever has that master list, can you include him?
And by the way, if .83 wasn't already hella cool, the fact that you hooligans (mean it in the most loving way) were in charge of the ghostcycles thing is pretty damn impressive.
the dreaded ben
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:50 pm
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
did she just call us hooligans?
snyd3282
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:42 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
Well, you are hooligans, but in a good way.
I don't have a really cheap way to do this, but I'm going to print up some business cards to hand out as I buy stuff when I am on my bike that say something like:
I am a customer and I bicycle to your business.
Please support bicycle lanes for my safety.
Six bicycles can fit in one parking space. Seattle
provides free sidewalk bicycle racks on request.
Name:__________________________________
Maybe even a watermark of a bicycle behind it.
sekai
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:58 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 1466Location: on the lake
Just a thought.
Due to the traffic on Stone, I've been using Woodland park. The road isn't torn to shit and there are less cars. I spent last night at a friends house on Woodland, there were a lot of cyclist using that road.
Just a thought for whoever is counting the bike path usage.
DJStroky
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:17 am
Joined: 25 May 2007Posts: 356Location: Downtown Tacoma
I've been using Woodland park. The road isn't torn to shit and there are less cars. I spent last night at a friends house on Woodland, there were a lot of cyclist using that road.
Just a thought for whoever is counting the bike path usage.
Word, I like to use that road too instead of Stone Way.
_________________ Tacoma isn't that bad... well maybe it is
snyd3282
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:21 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
I think at the moment cascade is just counting traffic on stone way (cars, trucks, semi-trucks, and I'd expect cyclists).
Somehow SDOT has traffic prediction models that say the traffic on Stone could increase 900% over the next 20 years and their last traffic counts were done in 2001. Part of playing good cop is gathering facts. I'll be out there doing that tonight.
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:12 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
snyd3282 wrote:
2) When we talk to other riders, especially if the cops are thick, I think we need to make sure to keep this legal and watch to make sure we aren't delaying more than 5 cars. If a pair of us has empty space in front of us and 5 cars behind us, we should keep it legal, drop to the side and let a set of cars through and then resume our original positions. The point is to legally clog traffic, not illegally block traffic, right?
The law in question:
RCW wrote:
RCW 46.61.427
Slow-moving vehicle to pull off roadway.
On a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe because of traffic in the opposite direction or other conditions, a slow moving vehicle, behind which five or more vehicles are formed in a line, shall turn off the roadway wherever sufficient area for a safe turn-out exists, in order to permit the vehicles following to proceed. As used in this section a slow moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place.
So this would not apply on Fremont or Stone (4 or 3 lanes). And I believe Bridge and the other roads around Aurora are 4 lanes as well, but I could be wrong. 34th seems to be the only street where this is likely to matter, but I'm guessing the general suckiness of roads near the Fremont Bridge at rush hour will render this moot.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
DOUG.
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:36 am
Joined: 29 Jan 2007Posts: 117Location: Wallingford
The map posted at seattlelikesbikes.org is an old version: it doesn't include Fremont Avenue. I've sent a new version to seattlelikesbikes AT gmail.com. Is there anybody out there? If not, you can also grab it here:
http://www.dougunderground.com/fremont_loopNEW.jpg
n_claw
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:47 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
DOUG. wrote:
The map posted at seattlelikesbikes.org is an old version: it doesn't include Fremont Avenue. I've sent a new version to seattlelikesbikes AT gmail.com. Is there anybody out there? If not, you can also grab it here:
http://www.dougunderground.com/fremont_loopNEW.jpg
As I said in my email, I believe we scrapped Evanston as we decided against buzzing Suzie Burke--this time.
Joined: 29 Jan 2007Posts: 117Location: Wallingford
I'm not sure you can make a legal left turn from southbound Fremont onto eastbound N 34th.
the dreaded ben
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:54 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
DOUG. wrote:
I'm not sure you can make a legal left turn from southbound Fremont onto eastbound N 34th.
omfg the sky is falling.
in other news, i'm totally gonna win this race.
n_claw
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:56 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
DOUG. wrote:
I'm not sure you can make a legal left turn from southbound Fremont onto eastbound N 34th.
ack. i think you're right. leave Evanston in, then?
Derrick, Henry, input? this part of the route isn't a part of my usual travel.
snyd3282
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:06 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
DOUG. wrote:
I'm not sure you can make a legal left turn from southbound Fremont onto eastbound N 34th.
You can't.
Three options:
1. Leave Evanston in.
2. At Fremont and 34th, make a right and do a U-turn in front of PCC. (Might be good PR if a bunch of us drop in and make purchases at PCC. ie. Traffic is blocked, but sales are up.)
3. Take the route all the way down to Phinney Ave so we get a protected intersection with a stoplight.
DOUG.
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:22 am
Joined: 29 Jan 2007Posts: 117Location: Wallingford
I'm gonna lobby for the Evanston route. I think a U-turn at PCC would be somewhat awkward (and perhaps not legal). And I think Phinney takes us too far West.
I like the idea of going by Suzie Burke's office AND hitting the stop sign at PCC (Evanston and 34th). Many a cyclist has been ticketing there, so I'd like the neighborhood to see what happens when dozens and dozens of bikers actually OBEY that sign, just how sloooooow that intersection can become.
This will also bring us across Fremont at 34th, which is highly visible.
n_claw
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:25 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
DOUG. wrote:
I'm gonna lobby for the Evanston route. I think a U-turn at PCC would be somewhat awkward (and perhaps not legal). And I think Phinney takes us too far West.
I like the idea of going by Suzie Burke's office AND hitting the stop sign at PCC (Evanston and 34th). Many a cyclist has been ticketing there, so I'd like the neighborhood to see what happens when dozens and dozens of bikers actually OBEY that sign, just how sloooooow that intersection can become.
This will also bring us across Fremont at 34th, which is highly visible.
agreed. my granola-loving self loves the PCC, but we're going for visibility, and that U-turn would be very messy. I'd like to keep us in a clean loop.
So, let's stick with your route, Doug!
snyd3282
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:10 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
Now that you mention that stop sign, I like the Evanston route even more.
I'll just stop in at PCC at the end of the ride.
DOUG.
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:48 am
Joined: 29 Jan 2007Posts: 117Location: Wallingford
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now with 50 percent more EVIL
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