So I have realized in the last few days that my old bike, a late 70s or early 80s Sekai, has horizontal dropouts and thus is just begging me to convert it to a fixie. I basically want something to fuck around the hill on, maybe add racks and take it to the grocery store, and maybe occasionally show up at fast friday and not feel like an outcast for having gears.
I'm (obviously?) a bit of a bike n00b, and so I'm trying to figure out what I'll need to get it going. The bike is in fine shape i.e. everything works except the front derailleur cable sticks, which is completely irrelevant. So I THINK all I'm going to need is 1) a new rear wheel w/fixed cog 2) a new front chainring and 3) a new chain.
So I guess my questions are thus. How cheap can I get a fixie rear wheel that'll match a vintage bike? Do I need a whole new crankset or can I use the cranks currently on the bike, just swapping out a single chainring for the double? Is there anything I'm overlooking in my extreme n00bitry? THX :)
mississippi
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:20 pm
Joined: 02 Feb 2007Posts: 258Location: cap hill
i noob'd my first fixie together and it was very simple. i got my rear wheel from Velo on a consignment deal, mavic rim with a surley hub complete with lockring and cog for $80 bucks. once you have that all you need to score is a (single speed) chain and pick up some single chainring nuts and bolts for the chain ring then it's on to the technical part.
put your new wheel on the rear of the bike and loop the chain over it. you'll need a tool to knock the excess links out, but those are cheap and if you don't want to buy one you can borrow mine if you'd like. since i rode a geared bike forever i figured the most universal gear for me would be the middle ring off of a generic road cassette would work with a 15t gear for my style of riding (you don't want anything that will kill you trying to climb, but you don't want the gearing so low that you're crawling down hills because you're rotating too fast to control it otherwise) once you have the cogs sized, then you just put the chain over them and get it to where you want it. since you have horizontal dropouts this is most easily done by making it fit when the wheel is in the forward position so you can pull it back to tighten it. once there check your chain to see if it's binding (remember this is effectively your rear brake), if it isn't then you're good to go, but if it is you can swap the chainring from the inside to the out in the front to get the spacing you need if it's minute.
the two that i have done worked with this method, though if you really want to make it perfect then you should replace the bottom bracket to give you the spacing that you want.
if this is clear as mud, or if you need any help feel free to write me. i live on the hill and i am usually pretty free on the weekends.
hope this helps
_________________ sic transit gloria mundi
ksep
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:57 pm
Joined: 27 Jan 2007Posts: 1879Location: Westlake
if you stick with the 3/32 drive train, you won't need a new chain. sheldon brown has more details.
and you might be able to skip getting a new chainring if you've got a double with a 39t inner ring. 39x16 = 65.8 GI, a pretty good starting point for seattle. IIRC the fixed gear issue of Cranked Magazine had an article w/ charles at wright bros saying the UW cycling team used to train with that gearing.
check and see if ben is still trying to sell his 16t surly cog.
I can bring these downtown today if you are interested. Not the pretty, deep v rims with flip-flip hub that are so common on fixed bikes these days, but they are cheap.
Hayduke
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:57 am
Joined: 01 Feb 2006Posts: 677Location: Seattle, WA
That is a good deal. How hard is it to get a lockring?
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:37 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
Hayduke wrote:
That is a good deal. How hard is it to get a lockring?
Easy.
surlykat
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:55 pm
Joined: 05 Jul 2007Posts: 658Location: in the CD
wow, thanks for all the excellent replies. i am not quite ready to start dropping cash since I just bought food and rent is due in a few days... but soon.
martin, that looks like an excellent deal on the wheels... if no one buys them before i get paid i would definitely be interested.
so one more question:
the front crankset currently on the bike is 52/40. is 40-16 an ok gearing ratio to start with or would i be better off trading it up to a 42t?
n_claw
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:04 pm
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
man, we should have a fixie-a-thon or something. I know Aden was looking into a fixie, as well. I just picked up a "new" old frame today off CL and it'll be a lil before I begin building the wheelset, but hooray for noobs!
-N*
martin
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:21 pm
Joined: 30 Jan 2006Posts: 712
SeditiousCanary wrote:
Hayduke wrote:
That is a good deal. How hard is it to get a lockring?
Easy.
I have a BB ring on there now as a "lock"ring, but it's not a TRUE lockring like on a track wheelset. On a true track set, they have a reverse-threaded lock ring that will only tighten if you try to back off the cog. In this case, the BB ring it just a few more threads to hold it in place and if you really tried, you could spin off the cog (which is why I'd suggest a brake if you go this route).
Happy Stick Person
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:22 pm
Joined: 20 Sep 2006Posts: 1168Location: Leschi
surlykat wrote:
so one more question:
the front crankset currently on the bike is 52/40. is 40-16 an ok gearing ratio to start with or would i be better off trading it up to a 42t?
go for a ride with your gearing set to 40-16 and then just forget that your shifters exist.
ksep
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:31 pm
Joined: 27 Jan 2007Posts: 1879Location: Westlake
40/16 simplifies to 5/2 = only two skid patches, a less than ideal situation. you could try 40-17 (63.5) and see how it feels. good going up hills, i bet. perhaps annoying going down, but that's what front brakes are for.
if you dislike it, bump up to a 42t chainring as 42-17 is a sweet 66.7 GI which is right in the butter zone IMHO (i ride 47x19 = 66.8). 42x16 (70.9) wouldn't be unmanageable, but you might want to give your legs a chance to work up to it.
_________________ -Kevin
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:40 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
martin wrote:
I have a BB ring on there now as a "lock"ring, but it's not a TRUE lockring like on a track wheelset. On a true track set, they have a reverse-threaded lock ring that will only tighten if you try to back off the cog. In this case, the BB ring it just a few more threads to hold it in place and if you really tried, you could spin off the cog (which is why I'd suggest a brake if you go this route).
A lockring is a lockring. There is a difference as you mentioned between a bottom bracket lockring and a track hub lockring, but both are pretty easy to come by. The Duke didn't specify which he was looking for, but they are both easy to locate in town. I have few BB lockrings looking for a home and a workbench that is itching to make some bikes fixed.
Wrench party at my place?
August 10th?
I'll bring the dogs and crazy cat. You bring your bike and some beer.
Happy Stick Person
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:41 pm
Joined: 20 Sep 2006Posts: 1168Location: Leschi
abamfici wrote:
40/16 simplifies to 5/2 = only two skid patches, a less than ideal situation. you could try 40-17 (63.5) and see how it feels. good going up hills, i bet. perhaps annoying going down, but that's what front brakes are for.
if you dislike it, bump up to a 42t chainring as 42-17 is a sweet 66.7 GI which is right in the butter zone IMHO (i ride 47x19 = 66.8). 42x16 (70.9) wouldn't be unmanageable, but you might want to give your legs a chance to work up to it.
if you opt for this I have a set of 170mm campy super record cranks (c1974) with 53/42 chain rings on em that you can use.
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:41 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
Also, someone needs to bring me a piece of cardboard that is 24" x 36". I don't care who, but it's a show stopper if I don't have it.
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:50 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
surlykat wrote:
the front crankset currently on the bike is 52/40. is 40-16 an ok gearing ratio to start with or would i be better off trading it up to a 42t?
I'm a HUGE advocate of using at least one odd numbered tooth gear in front or rear. Odd toothed cogs are generaly easier to find than chainrings, so I would focus on cogs.
My reason for suggesting it is you get:
- Longer cog and chainring wear
- More skid patches
The other rule of thumb is if the number of teeth on the cog is a prime number, you are better off. Witness the chart:
surlykat
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:31 pm
Joined: 05 Jul 2007Posts: 658Location: in the CD
SeditiousCanary wrote:
Wrench party at my place?
August 10th?
can't make it... i'm heading to spokane that day for a cousin's wedding. weekends are filling up rapidly, damn the end of summer.
the next weekend? or the one after?
Last edited by surlykat on Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:35 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
surlykat wrote:
the next weekend? or the one after?
Sure, I'm easy, but it's got to be a Friday because I work on Sat and Sun.
surlykat
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:25 am
Joined: 05 Jul 2007Posts: 658Location: in the CD
alright! check wheels off my list. (thanks again martin!!)
wrench party 8/17?
n_claw
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:36 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
surlykat wrote:
alright! check wheels off my list. (thanks again martin!!)
wrench party 8/17?
sounds good to me, i'll try to get ahold of a decent wheelset by then.
where's the joint, anyhow? and what kinda beer do you like, Canary?
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:01 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
n_claw wrote:
surlykat wrote:
wrench party 8/17?
where's the joint, anyhow? and what kinda beer do you like, Canary?
Works for me too.
Shall we call it 6:00 PM?
I'm at 35th and Troll. I actually live here: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1187690
The address is 924B Norht 35th Street.
I like beer. I like IPA, stout, lager, ale, as long as they are good. Mostly I want to make sure there are enough for everyone to be able to have a few if they want them. I'm hospitable that way.
Last edited by SeditiousCanary on Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:20 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
So this is still going on if any of you like. It will be a much lower-key event than wrench parties at ABR due to my wife studying for exams. My only request is that people try to keep the volume to a minimum, limit the conversation with my wife to what she is willing to partisipate in (she likes you lot, but she's got work to do), and that we break it up by 22:00 or so.
I'd be happy to go out for beers and or a bike ride afterwords.
Also, I have the required cardboard.
n_claw
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:27 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
dammit, i totally committed to aid a house-party that night (afore we all chose a wrench-party date), and i might get mauled (and not in a friendly way) if i back out now.
<3, have fun w/o me, critters.
-N*
n_claw
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:33 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
n_claw wrote:
dammit, i totally committed to aid a house-party that night (afore we all chose a wrench-party date), and i might get mauled (and not in a friendly way) if i back out now.
<3, have fun w/o me, critters.
-N*
EDIT: wait, no. what time did y'all want to get started?
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:24 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
n_claw wrote:
EDIT: wait, no. what time did y'all want to get started?
18:00? Sooner? Later?
I have the day off, so it's really pretty open for me.
Last edited by SeditiousCanary on Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total
jeff
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:37 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
Typical .83 planning:
YES! YES! Let's DO THIS SHIT! HOLY COW THIS SOUNDS AWESEOME!!!!!!!!!
Hey, wait what if we did it the following weekend instead?
Hey can you guys wait another week to do this?
If I can get out of other plans I may stop by.
I'll be there!
Wait, I can't make it.
I might come.
I can't make it.
I should be able to make it.
My wife/girlfriend/son/daughter made plans, sorry I have to bail.
Chris, I will come down.
*(which translates to mean, you will not see me).
TrikerTrev
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:41 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
jeff wrote:
Typical .83 planning:
YES! YES! Let's DO THIS SHIT! HOLY COW THIS SOUNDS AWESEOME!!!!!!!!!
Hey, wait what if we did it the following weekend instead?
Hey can you guys wait another week to do this?
If I can get out of other plans I may stop by.
I'll be there!
Wait, I can't make it.
I might come.
I can't make it.
I should be able to make it.
My wife/girlfriend/son/daughter made plans, sorry I have to bail.
Chris, I will come down.
*(which translates to mean, you will not see me).
...and your point is?
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
n_claw
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:43 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
i can easily be there by 5:30 with beer and bike in hand. well...so to speak, anyhow.
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:25 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
SeditiousCanary wrote:
UPDATE: I have the day off, so it's really pretty open for me.
Figured I should mention the part about me being around all day as it's my scheduled day off.
That said, given normal attrition of Point83 events, I'll be pleasantly surprised to see any of you.
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:25 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
jeff wrote:
Chris, I will come down.
*(which translates to mean, you will not see me).
So, no pong then?
surlykat
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:13 pm
Joined: 05 Jul 2007Posts: 658Location: in the CD
I'm still in. I have a shopping list that I need to take care of this week, and am apt to forget something or other, but I'll try to get everything I'll need. Bike, bike parts, and beer... should be fun.
So, in an effort to make sure that I don't forget anything essential, this is what I have on my shopping list for this week:
SS/fixie chain (3/32")
short stack crank bolts
tires and tubes for my new wheels
crank bros. eggbeater pedals
17-tooth cog and lockring (rear wheel currently has 16t cog, but with a 40t chainring that = 1 skid patch = badness).
I have: the bike and the wheelset. Am I forgetting anything obvious?
I'm excited! Yay!
n_claw
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:18 pm
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
woohoo. if i can't get my shit together as far as MY shopping list goes i am coming just to watch--bike voyeur as i am. i can use the education, anyhow. i am such a novice.
<3, N*
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:42 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
surlykat wrote:
Am I forgetting anything obvious?
Nope, sounds about right. If your brake pads are showing signs of wear, may want to get some of those too, and maybe a brake cable if you feel like swapping that out. It's not like I won't have to adjust the brakes for the new wheel anyway, may as well do anything else which needs doing.
Oh, and while not impossible to find, a single speed 3/32" chain is not required. Any good 3/32" chain will do. I have yet to use a new chain on any fixed gear bike I have owned.
surlykat
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:16 pm
Joined: 05 Jul 2007Posts: 658Location: in the CD
SeditiousCanary wrote:
Oh, and while not impossible to find, a single speed 3/32" chain is not required. Any good 3/32" chain will do. I have yet to use a new chain on any fixed gear bike I have owned.
Good to know. The chain currently on the bike has turned a nice shade of rust, though, so I probably ought to pick up a new one... so just any old chain, doesn't have to be SS-specific. Check.
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:40 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
surlykat wrote:
so just any old chain, doesn't have to be SS-specific. Check.
It's a good idea to take the track cog and chainring with you to buy the chain. Since there are 1/8" and 3/32" track cogs and chain rings, you want the chain to match the cog and ring. If you are reusing an existing chain ring from a bike with 5 or more gears on the back wheel, it's likley a 3/32", but it's easier to take it with you and be sure then get it all over to my place and then need to make an emergency trip to a bike shop.
surlykat
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:05 pm
Joined: 05 Jul 2007Posts: 658Location: in the CD
Success! The fixie conversion project has achieved Phase 1 completion.
Many thanks to Mr. Canary for making it happen. I rode it around all day today and had a fucking blast. Next steps will be to flip and chop the bars (or find new bullhorn bars) and lose the back brake and the shitty brake levers. And get a new saddle.
Mmm, fixie.
langston
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:02 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
surlykat wrote:
Success! The fixie conversion project has achieved Phase 1 completion.
Many thanks to Mr. Canary for making it happen. I rode it around all day today and had a fucking blast. Next steps will be to flip and chop the bars (or find new bullhorn bars) and lose the back brake and the shitty brake levers. And get a new saddle.
Mmm, fixie.
congrats, but do yourself and your extremities a favor by keeping the rear brake, for at least the first month. You live on a large hill, which you go up and down with high frequency. Stopping power is good, even if its "redundant".
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:46 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
langston wrote:
congrats, but do yourself and your extremities a favor by keeping the rear brake, for at least the first month. You live on a large hill, which you go up and down with high frequency. Stopping power is good, even if its "redundant".
This is totally true and even more so given it's a ghetto fixie. If you had a proper left-hand thread lockring, it would be less of an issue, but you want to make sure you have two brakes.
That said, I rode mine just like your bike is set up for over 12 years and never had any problems. Just remember to retorque the crank arm nuts and cog lock ring.
Or come over to my place and have me make you do it yourself.
koos42
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:35 pm
Joined: 10 Jul 2007Posts: 367Location: ON YOUR LEFT! your other left.
Keep the brakes, at least until you get a new wheel built for it. See what Sheldon has to say about suicide hubs.
Joined: 06 Apr 2006Posts: 548Location: Providence, RI
Alarmist is right. I rode both of my fixed gears on hub setups like this for a long time and never had a problem. I just got around to building a wheel on a real track hub a few months ago. I still ride a fixie without a lockring to work and frequently on other rides including last night's. I only have a front brake and only use it when I'm feeling lazy or going down really insane hills. I weight less than Canary, but probably close to what you weigh. Hope to see this bike on a ride soon.
_________________ Adam
lantius
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:46 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
if you really want to be sure that it won't come off and you don't care about re-using the cog or hub, i can get it on there with my magic rotafix powers so it doesn't come off.
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sorry, can't make it!
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