Point83.com Forum Index  »  Westlake Center  »  8/15/2007 5pm - Seattle Likes Bikes part II [updated]
 Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 3 of 3    Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
lantius
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:39 am Reply with quote
1337 Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 6705 Location: right over

TrikerTrev wrote:
Then there was tha old lady riding on the sidewalk. I asked her to join us and shes was like "i don't wanna die!" Dum cow...i wasn't gonna tell her it's illeagal to ride on the side walk (not to mention MORE dangerous), but i'll let her find that out on her own.

it is more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk, but it's not illegal.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:45 am Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Aug 2006 Posts: 2666 Location: No Fun Town, USA

TrikerTrev wrote:
Then there was tha old lady riding on the sidewalk. I asked her to join us and shes was like "i don't wanna die!" Dum cow...i wasn't gonna tell her it's illeagal to ride on the side walk (not to mention MORE dangerous), but i'll let her find that out on her own.


Per state law, riding on the sidewalk is up to the cities (I think the default is it's legal if they don't make a law).

Per Seattle Municipal Code, riding on sidewalks is legal, subject to certain provisions:

SMC 11.44.120 wrote:


Riding on sidewalk or public path.

Every person operating a bicycle upon any sidewalk or public path shall operate the same in a careful and prudent manner and at a rate of speed no greater than is reasonable and proper under the conditions existing at the point of operation, taking into account the amount and character of pedestrian traffic, grade and width of sidewalk or public path, and condition of surface, and shall obey all traffic-control devices. Every person operating a bicycle upon a sidewalk or public path shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian thereon, and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing any pedestrian.

(Ord. 108200 Section 2(11.44.120), 1979.)

_________________
I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
View user's profile Send private message
 
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:55 am Reply with quote
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 2303 Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!

gsbarnes wrote:
Speaking of our elected city leaders, I have a dream!

No, not that kind of dream.

As Seattle Likes Bikes' crackpot visionary, my dream is that the mayor and the city council form a 'Ride in the Rain' team for January 2008.

....

City Council + Mayor: Ride in the Rain '08. If the rest of the SLB crew agrees, I shall outline some steps we can take to make this glorious future come to pass. Or at least, have a good time trying.

See everyone in a few hours.


how 'bout these for ya GSB?

1) we invite the mayor and CC to come ride Stone Way with us. really!

it's like this; we can start at either Greenlake or GWP (either one would get this point across) and ride a loop, either up and down or down and back up. DO this in the most legal of fashions and point out the total clusterfuck this couple mile stretch of road has become...to BOTH drivers, bikers and peds (well, maybe not so much the latter, if they don't wanna be supportive). Because simply, if my 13 yo can see that its confusing (greenlake has a bike lane, then it doesnt, then where it turns into Stone it has a sharrow, then a bike lane then a sharrow again...WTF...just pics something and stay with it...GOSH!!!) I even had my landlord/doctor drive this and he TOTALLY sees how confusing it is...for drivers! Is there a bike lane there or not...wait theres one here..where'd it go...WTF is going on here!

granted i'd be shell shocked (no pun intended) if ANY of them took us up on this offer, but the point wold be driven home like a corndog into catchup then into Derricks gullet.


2) Along with this we need to express to the Mayor that his little blanket email response to those of us that wrote him that having the SDOT monitor the bike and car usage of Stone for the next 6 mo and re-evaluate the situation is baloney.

why?

cause in the next 6 months most folks biking now will not be due to the weather. and if hes asking the SDOT to get new usage stats those stats will be in favor of cars. there needs to be some further discussion with him on this subject, just to be diplomatic (gag). either do a new assessment from scratch, do a year long study (to get real data) or just land on a single standard for this stretch of road. It's really ridiculous that in a few miles we have all 3 lane options in operation.

thoughts?

_________________
Insufferable ass, est. 1969
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
snyd3282
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:59 am Reply with quote
could suck the fun out of a blowjob Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 588 Location: Ballard / Fremont

TrikerTrev wrote:


Also, the big CBC guy that was handling the petition was getting on my fucking nerves. We have made it clear that we are trying to show how the sharrows work (or dont) by riding legally in them, and this asshat is just riding where ever he wanted to. Granted I wouldnt give two squirts or pee about this normally, but for this it's counter productive...and when i told him to ride in the sharrow he looked at me like i was crazy (..er, than normal).

sure glad he's on our side...ugg!


Umm, my bad. I think that was me. I was trying to get folks to sign the petition before the ride. I was wearing a green button up shirt and blue jeans.

A couple times I had a brain fart and jumped into the other lane but most of the time I was riding in the leftmost position of the right hand lane for visibility and to get the cars to slow down a bit. It is a habit and it is hard to break and I was thinking "use the sharrowed lane" not "ride in the dangerous door zone on top of the sharrow".

If you yelled at me, I looked at you weird because I couldn't make out what you were saying. Sorry.
View user's profile Send private message
 
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:09 am Reply with quote
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 2303 Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!

snyd3282 wrote:
TrikerTrev wrote:


Also, the big CBC guy that was handling the petition was getting on my fucking nerves. We have made it clear that we are trying to show how the sharrows work (or dont) by riding legally in them, and this asshat is just riding where ever he wanted to. Granted I wouldnt give two squirts or pee about this normally, but for this it's counter productive...and when i told him to ride in the sharrow he looked at me like i was crazy (..er, than normal).

sure glad he's on our side...ugg!


Umm, my bad. I think that was me. I was trying to get folks to sign the petition before the ride. I was wearing a green button up shirt and blue jeans.

A couple times I had a brain fart and jumped into the other lane but most of the time I was riding in the leftmost position of the right hand lane for visibility and to get the cars to slow down a bit. It is a habit and it is hard to break and I was thinking "use the sharrowed lane" not "ride in the dangerous door zone on top of the sharrow".

If you yelled at me, I looked at you weird because I couldn't make out what you were saying. Sorry.



thats cool...appo 'cepted.

unfortunately, since the sharrow concept puts us RIGHT IT HE DOOR ZONE, thats part of the point. it's not that safe of an option...hence why i'd like the mayor and CC to ride this, and why were trying to stick to the legal process (as much as it makes me cringe).

...as for the sidewalk thingy...okay, okay, it's not technically illeagal...like i said i didnt have the RCW in my face, but it was my impression that if there is a dedicated bike lane, thats the preferred place to ride. I just find it mildly retarded for a grown adult to ride on a sidewalk when there is a bike lane 8 feet to your left under the argument that it's more dangerous. like the sidewalk is softer or gravity, inertia and mass are different there too?

whatever

_________________
Insufferable ass, est. 1969
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
Eric_s
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:16 am Reply with quote
Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 1691 Location: the dirty south

snyd3282 wrote:

A couple times I had a brain fart and jumped into the other lane but most of the time I was riding in the leftmost position of the right hand lane for visibility and to get the cars to slow down a bit. It is a habit and it is hard to break and I was thinking "use the sharrowed lane" not "ride in the dangerous door zone on top of the sharrow".


I rode outside of the door zone, whether than was over the sharrow or in the middle of the traffic lane. The RCW states that a bicycle should ride as far to the right of the traffic lane as is safe, so I ride where I'm safest, and it's not my fault if that's in the middle of the lane.

The guy in the piece of shit nissan who honked was a classic example of why a bike lane is a great idea, because he sure was upset that we were in the traffic lane. Where else could I go?

_________________
That's Lemmy, Not Jesus.
View user's profile Send private message
 
MyNameIsJeff
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:18 am Reply with quote
BOOSH! Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 2042 Location: Nearest bar.

If anyone has any stats on cyclists hit by cars in Seattle or any other facts we can include on the video please post them here.

_________________
See you in Hell.
View user's profile Send private message
 
n_claw
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:40 am Reply with quote
Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 517 Location: the only hill: Beacon

21+ cyclists have been hit on Stone Way since 2002.
13 pedestrians have been hit on Stone Way since 2002.
Since the 1990 census, bicycle commuting has increased by a staggering 42%. Automobile commuting has increased less than 10%, despite rapid population growth.


I can put you in touch with David Hiller if you want any more handy-dandy statistics, he is totally the man as far as that goes.

Or there's Cascade's Advocacy dept (of which David is lead): 206-522-3222.
They like to give info and stats to support cycling causes--it's part of their job!

And Jeff, THANK YOU.
View user's profile Send private message
 
peter
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:03 am Reply with quote
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 42 Location: UW

TrikerTrev wrote:
...if there is a dedicated bike lane, thats the preferred place to ride.


Just to keep your errata up to date, Trevor, I'm pretty sure that a "dedicated" bike lane is actually what we're trying to get installed on lower Stone Way. Like the one north of 40th. I think the reason that said "cow" was scared to ride in the street was cause Stone Way lacks these....

for the moment.
View user's profile Send private message
 
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:35 am Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Aug 2006 Posts: 2666 Location: No Fun Town, USA

n_claw wrote:
21+ cyclists have been hit on Stone Way since 2002.
13 pedestrians have been hit on Stone Way since 2002.


Reverse those.
13 cyclists reported hit 2002-2005 (per map in Appendix A, Bicycle Master Plan).
21 pedestrians since 2001. (per, I don't know. Michael found that one).

By the way, the Bicycle Master Plan has lots of stats, mostly in Appendix A.
http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/bikemaster.htm

_________________
I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
View user's profile Send private message
 
laura
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:02 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

TrikerTrev wrote:

RIIIIIIght...when polkadotted pandas do the can-can out or my ass!



Can one of you tech savvy fools make that happen?
View user's profile Send private message
 
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:29 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Aug 2006 Posts: 2666 Location: No Fun Town, USA

As promised, here's my letter to the mayor. The one to Drago looks remarkably similar, with references to 'you' replaced by 'the mayor', etc.

If I have time, I'll probably e-mail it to the Times and P-I as well, after another round of tweaking. But these two letters I'm going to try to drop off in person tonight at City Hall, as a tiny dry run for Sept. 5.

Quote:

Dear Mayor Nickels,

I am writing to ask you to reinstate the road diet on Stone Way N between
N 40th and N 34th St, for the safety of cars, cyclists and pedestrians.

As a driver, cyclist, and pedestrian, the proposed road diet is much safer for all modes of transportation than the current 4-lane configuration. Last night, I participated in an action with Seattle Likes Bikes on Stone Way, where we repeatedly tried to cross the street legally during the evening rush hour.

Crossing Stone Way was a mixture of boredom
punctuated by the worst kinds of thrills. Boredom, because nine out of
ten times, there was no traffic to speak of. Thrilling, because sometimes
the traffic lights would release cars toward us in both directions, and then
it became a game of chance. Will that car stop? Will the next lane stop?
Will a driver's vision be blocked by traffic in the other lanes? There
were a few near misses, and I never felt as safe as I do crossing a
road with only two through travel lanes.

You and the City Council claim to have made pedestrian safety your top
priority for 2007. It is clear that Stone Way could be made more safe for
pedestrians by adopting the proposed road diet, but instead you have
instituted a six month delay, for no discernible reason. The only reason that has been offered is a concern about traffic volumes, which has been shown to have no merit, both anecdotally (see my observations above about light rush hour traffic) and scientifically (by the Cascade Bicycle Club's study of Stone Way N). If Cascade's study is not sufficient, then you should order SDOT to perform their own traffic study. What you must not do is needlessly delay the process by six months.

At least 21 pedestrians have been struck on Stone Way since 2001. During your six month delay, odds are high that at least one more will be struck. A cyclist has already been hit by a car (Mark Rivera; see 'Bike Strike', The Stranger, August 8, 2007). If you are truly concerned about safety, implement the Stone Way road diet now.

Sincerely,
blah blah blah

_________________
I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
View user's profile Send private message
 
koos42
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:33 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 367 Location: ON YOUR LEFT! your other left.

laura wrote:
TrikerTrev wrote:

RIIIIIIght...when polkadotted pandas do the can-can out or my ass!



Can one of you tech savvy fools make that happen?


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
 
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:34 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Aug 2006 Posts: 2666 Location: No Fun Town, USA

And I thought I had too much time on my hands.

_________________
I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
View user's profile Send private message
 
laura
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:54 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

koos42 wrote:
laura wrote:
TrikerTrev wrote:

RIIIIIIght...when polkadotted pandas do the can-can out or my ass!



Can one of you tech savvy fools make that happen?




OH MY DEAR GODS IN VARIOUS HEAVENS!

That is perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
View user's profile Send private message
 
henry
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:48 pm Reply with quote
somewhat piggish Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 5415 Location: on porch with shotgun

Ok you crazy dutch bastard, you're officially OK by me now.

_________________
winter men
View user's profile Send private message
 
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:21 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 2303 Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!

peter wrote:
TrikerTrev wrote:
...if there is a dedicated bike lane, thats the preferred place to ride.


Just to keep your errata up to date, Trevor, I'm pretty sure that a "dedicated" bike lane is actually what we're trying to get installed on lower Stone Way. Like the one north of 40th. I think the reason that said "cow" was scared to ride in the street was cause Stone Way lacks these....

for the moment.


oh for fucks sake...cant a fella rant without all this DAMN LOGIC AND FACT getting in the way!!!

...but thanks for setting me straight, Peter.

_________________
Insufferable ass, est. 1969
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:24 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 2303 Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!

laura wrote:
koos42 wrote:
laura wrote:
TrikerTrev wrote:

RIIIIIIght...when polkadotted pandas do the can-can out or my ass!



Can one of you tech savvy fools make that happen?




OH MY DEAR GODS IN VARIOUS HEAVENS!

That is perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


and, you caught the look of near euphoria too...all that's missing is a tent in my pants.

BTW...I love the crowns, nice !touoch

_________________
Insufferable ass, est. 1969
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
gsbarnes
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:55 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Aug 2006 Posts: 2666 Location: No Fun Town, USA

Turned in my letter to the mayor yesterday afternoon, and got a quick turnaround: the exact same reply Trevor and others got, including some mush about how bike lanes that are already there are coming on Fremont Ave, etc. Nothing about pedestrians, though, which is what I was talking about.

_________________
I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
View user's profile Send private message
 
henry
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:17 pm Reply with quote
somewhat piggish Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 5415 Location: on porch with shotgun

I got the same form email yesterday too, although I emailed them about two weeks ago ... strange how the reaction times vary.

_________________
winter men
View user's profile Send private message
 
gsbarnes
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:52 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Aug 2006 Posts: 2666 Location: No Fun Town, USA

I sent them a snarky e-mail reply asking if I could have the form letter for pedestrian safety. Maybe they'll count me twice!

_________________
I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
View user's profile Send private message
 
MyNameIsJeff
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:55 pm Reply with quote
BOOSH! Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 2042 Location: Nearest bar.

I need music ideas for the clip. Whats a good track to watch people on bikes with?

_________________
See you in Hell.
View user's profile Send private message
 
Foo
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:37 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 583

Oooh, Little Deuce Coupe!

Or Pink Cadillac!

Any other ways I can be unhelpful?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
laura
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:15 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

MyNameIsJeff wrote:
I need music ideas for the clip. Whats a good track to watch people on bikes with?



Queen - "Bicycle" ???

Don't mind Foo - he hit a DAMN CAR yesterday, so he is a bit distracted by automobiles.
View user's profile Send private message
 
Oldmesenger82
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:00 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Posts: 204 Location: Fremont

This was in my inbox when I got back from vacation sorry if it's already been posted. How did the ride go?
Thank you for contacting me regarding bicycle lanes on Stone Way N. My
aim is to make it easier and safer for people to bike in Seattle.



In fact, we intend to add 136 miles of bike lanes and signed bike
routes in the next two years alone. Much of the work will be done as part
of street projects funded by the Bridging the Gap transportation levy
approved by voters last year.



New bike routes are being built all over the city. In Fremont, for
example, bicyclists will soon enjoy new lanes on each side of Fremont
Avenue North, from North 36th Street to North 42nd Street. The new lanes
will provide better connections to the Burke Gilman Trail, the Ship
Canal Trail, Dexter Avenue, N 50th Street and Phinney Avenue. Earlier this
year, I proposed and the Council approved “Complete Streets”
legislation. This law required the city to consider how best to accommodate
bikes and pedestrians – not just cars – whenever we design or
rebuild streets.



In order to use every opportunity to expand our bike network we are
introducing a new feature called “sharrows.” Simply put, sharrows are
uniquely marked roadways where motorists and cyclists share the road.
The road has clear markings to alert motorists that cyclists may be
in the area and to let cyclists know where they should ride within the
lane.



We plan to use these sharrow markings for a trial period on Stone Way
N. Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) engineers feel that this
configuration is a safe way to accommodate increased bicycle traffic on
this road.



I understand your concerns and desire to have bicycle-only lanes in all
directions on Stone Way N. That is why I have directed SDOT to
monitor automobile and bicycle traffic for the next six months to see if the
sharrow configuration is working as planned, or if we need to make
changes. I want to ensure that all users of the road can travel safely.



Seattle is a great place to ride a bike and my goal is to make it even
better. Please continue to give us feedback on this configuration so
that it can be included in SDOT’s analysis.



Sincerely,



GREG NICKELS

Mayor of Seattle

NEXT TIME GET TO THE POINT!
View user's profile Send private message
 
TrikerTrev
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:58 am Reply with quote
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 2303 Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!

Oldmesenger82 wrote:

In order to use every opportunity to expand our bike network we are
introducing a new feature called “sharrows.” Simply put, sharrows are
uniquely marked roadways where motorists and cyclists share the road.
The road has clear markings to alert motorists that cyclists may be
in the area and to let cyclists know where they should ride within the
lane.


Doesn't really matter or mean jack squat if drivers don't know what the marks mean. If we were to poll drivers on what the roadway markings mean I bet theyd have a basic idea or none at all. Education of the public is a necessity if this is to succeed.

Oldmesenger82 wrote:
We plan to use these sharrow markings for a trial period on Stone Way N. Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) engineers feel that this configuration is a safe way to accommodate increased bicycle traffic on this road.


Trial period my ass! I dont buy that for a minute, and the SDOT is retarded! 3 different lane configurations in what, 3 miles, from Greenlake all the way down Stone! PICK SOMETHING...its damn confusing for bikes AND cars...and that equals a greater hazard than no markings at all.

Oldmesenger82 wrote:
I understand your concerns and desire to have bicycle-only lanes in all directions on Stone Way N. That is why I have directed SDOT to monitor automobile and bicycle traffic for the next six months to see if the sharrow configuration is working as planned, or if we need to make changes. I want to ensure that all users of the road can travel safely.


You, Mr. Mayor, understand NOTHING! You direct the SDOT to monitor auto and bike traffic THROUGH WINTER?!? Gee, thanks for nothing. Sharrows, dedicated bike lanes, nothing at all will make NO difference in Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, as the people that either do use this road still will but those that might, likely wont. Review the existing data; do the study again from scratch; or just pick a damn configuration.

_________________
Insufferable ass, est. 1969
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
MyNameIsJeff
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:30 pm Reply with quote
BOOSH! Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 2042 Location: Nearest bar.

I posted a new thread for the video for the ride. Let me know if you want the file on a disc.

_________________
See you in Hell.
View user's profile Send private message
 
Reply to topic
Page 3 of 3    Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Point83.com Forum Index  »  Westlake Center  »  8/15/2007 5pm - Seattle Likes Bikes part II [updated]
All times are GMT - 8 Hours
The time now is Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:30 am
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
 


Forums | Calendar | TOS | Tapirs

© 2004-2015 Point83
Point83 is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Joby Lafky Corporation