Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
I wanted to own two bikes, and had one. Now I want two and have zero.
I want a commuter/utility bike that I can abuse and haul kids in using a trailer or Trail-A-Bike. The Trail-A-Bike basically rules out skinny tires, since it makes the bike very unstable. I'd also want to add fenders and a rack.
My old Marin was, after 2+ years of fiddling, almost there. But I also wanted at least a front disc brake for better stopping power, so it wasn't quite done.
2nd bike I wanted was a road bike that I would presumably use for longer distances and faster riding.
Okay, so now where do I start? It seems to me to be more important to get the utility bike first, since that helps me get to work, ferry the kids, etc. My choices (as I see them) are:
Go down to Recycled right now and buy the same thing I had (or this year's model), get them to change all the things I know are wrong, and basically get myself back where I was before within a week.
Same thing, except buy up one notch on the same bike line. The theory being that the components on my low-end bike were pretty crappy, and this will just be a nicer solution.
Go for a completely different bike. Miles suggested a Trek Portland, which a friend on a racing team independently told me a few months ago he could get at a discount. Maybe (I'm sure) you folks have other suggestions?
Haunt Craigslist for a few days and take the best thing I can get.
I'm not made of money, but I can certainly afford to buy a 'reasonable' new bike here. And by reasonable, I do not mean $2100.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
lantius
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:25 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
the trek portland really isn't a commuter/utility bike imo, more like a rain trainer for squiddies out there. i mean, what's with the low spoke count wheels?
of course i really love my long haul trucker, but i'm not sure if you could get one of those right now, i think the completes are sold out again so it'd probably have to be built up from the frame. it also doesn't have disc brake provisions, but it's basically an amazing bike.
the kona dew line seems pretty nice but i haven't ridden them enough to say. i'm also not sure if there's anybody out there that makes an affordable, well-designed rigid mountain bike with tire clearance, provisions for gears, and disc brakes - something like the 1x1 but with a derailleur hanger?
lantius
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:31 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
actually, a bike i've been curious about is the novara safari. aluminum frame, disc brakes, chunky styling? kind of an odd duck. ditch the suspension post and the adjustable stem and you're getting closer. i'd also swap the tires for meaty k-rads, but that's just me.
bonus - you can just return it if you don't like it.
henry
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:16 pm
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
lantius wrote:
actually, a bike i've been curious about is the novara safari.
I like those. That may make me a crusty old man. oh well.
the trek portland really isn't a commuter/utility bike imo, more like a rain trainer for squiddies out there. i mean, what's with the low spoke count wheels?
I agree
Quote:
of course i really love my long haul trucker, but i'm not sure if you could get one of those right now, i think the completes are sold out again so it'd probably have to be built up from the frame. it also doesn't have disc brake provisions, but it's basically an amazing bike.
I'm friends with the owner of OlyBikes and it's a great shop. I have no experices with Deschutes, but I've heard good things.
At this time of year REI often sells the Novara Randonee as crazy cheap prices. It is a nice basic touring bike. The LHT is better, but the Randonee is still really good and you can find them as cheaply as $500 at the right time of year.
Used is always a good option, but my experience with used is that you get the best deals when you aren't looking for them. If I start looking for 58cm touring bikes today nothing will show up. If I'm not actively looking then I'll keep finding great deals at yard sales for $10.
langston
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:39 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
Alex wrote:
Used is always a good option, but my experience with used is that you get the best deals when you aren't looking for them. If I start looking for 58cm touring bikes today nothing will show up. If I'm not actively looking then I'll keep finding great deals at yard sales for $10.
if you find one, let me know. I need a rain bike, like soon.
MikeOD
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:03 pm
Joined: 04 Feb 2006Posts: 545
henry wrote:
lantius wrote:
actually, a bike i've been curious about is the novara safari.
I like those. That may make me a crusty old man. oh well.
I've been intrigued by the safari too. For a disk brake utility bike that will work with a rear rack it might be hard to beat.
mcrawfor
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:06 pm
Joined: 09 May 2006Posts: 1039Location: Ballard
lantius wrote:
the trek portland really isn't a commuter/utility bike imo, more like a rain trainer for squiddies out there. i mean, what's with the low spoke count wheels?
It comes with tiny wheels yes, but it has huge clearance for larger sturdier ones. Is there anything besides the stock wheelset that makes you feel this way?
_________________ -miles
Alex
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:08 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006Posts: 3128Location: Roosevelt
henry wrote:
lantius wrote:
actually, a bike i've been curious about is the novara safari.
I like those. That may make me a crusty old man. oh well.
I guess I'm crustier. I'm not a big fan. I don't like the butterfly bars, don't like disk brakes, think steel is a better material for commuter/utility frames, and prefer more of a road geometry. 32lbs also seems really heavy considering that it doesn't have fenders or integrated lighting.
Langston -- I'll let you know if I see anything. 56-58cm frame?
alex
Alex
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:12 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006Posts: 3128Location: Roosevelt
mcrawfor wrote:
lantius wrote:
the trek portland really isn't a commuter/utility bike imo, more like a rain trainer for squiddies out there. i mean, what's with the low spoke count wheels?
It comes with tiny wheels yes, but it has huge clearance for larger sturdier ones. Is there anything besides the stock wheelset that makes you feel this way?
Decorative fenders, overly high gearing (without easy ability to lower it much), carbon fork, short cut steerer? The best thing about the Portland is that they put the disk caliper on the chainstay (instead of the seatstay) so that it doesn't interfere with rack mounting.
langston
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:22 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
Alex wrote:
Langston -- I'll let you know if I see anything. 56-58cm frame?
alex
yup. precisely. we're both of a feather for what we like, you and I. Steel, road-ish geo, 700c wheels, drop bars. the rest is negotiable as long as it will take fenders and preferably, also a rack.
Decorative fenders, overly high gearing (without easy ability to lower it much), carbon fork, short cut steerer? The best thing about the Portland is that they put the disk caliper on the chainstay (instead of the seatstay) so that it doesn't interfere with rack mounting.
High gearing? It comes with a triple and a 27!?
The portland is a probably the ultimate squid rain bike for sure. The fenders that come with it good for a light drizzle, but for any time in the rain, you are better served by full SKS+flaps. The wheels aren't hot - I'll admit it, but the fork is solid.
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:48 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
lantius wrote:
the kona dew line seems pretty nice but i haven't ridden them enough to say. i'm also not sure if there's anybody out there that makes an affordable, well-designed rigid mountain bike with tire clearance, provisions for gears, and disc brakes - something like the 1x1 but with a derailleur hanger?
Went down to Recycled and rode a Dew Deluxe today and it seems okay by me, apart from the fact that the one I rode was too small. They're assembling a 58cm frame for me to test ride; I fear I'm going to need a 60cm. Thank goodness I still have the muscle memory from the properly-fit Marin.
Anyway, hopefully I'll be re-biked by next Tuesday.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
lantius
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:57 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
martin wrote:
High gearing? It comes with a triple and a 27!?
ha, 30x27? close to being good, but they got it backwards. 26x34 is more where it's at. =)
honestly though, i don't mean to be overly negative on the portland. it's a good bike for the gofast crew, but for your average person who just wants a utility bike in the rain it's $1700 before you start upgrading the wheels.
otoh, for gsbarnes it might be a good way to solve two birds with one stone - gofast and cargo-y?
Decorative fenders, overly high gearing (without easy ability to lower it much), carbon fork, short cut steerer? The best thing about the Portland is that they put the disk caliper on the chainstay (instead of the seatstay) so that it doesn't interfere with rack mounting.
High gearing? It comes with a triple and a 27!?
It's not the number of gears, it is how high they are. The highest gear is 50x12, good for 33.5 mph at 100rpm. When was the last time that you were cruising along the flats at that speed? On a descent you'd go faster by going into an aero tuck and coasting. Eddy Merckx didn't ride with gearing that high, so I don't think it's going to help me.
The low gear is 30x27. Fine for climbing unloaded, not much fun if you are also carrying your groceries and going up a 10% grade.
In comparison my derailleured-road bike has 44/28 chainrings and a 7sp 13-30 cassette. About half the gears, no triple, but a more useful range for me.
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:11 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
lantius wrote:
martin wrote:
High gearing? It comes with a triple and a 27!?
ha, 30x27? close to being good, but they got it backwards. 26x34 is more where it's at. =)
honestly though, i don't mean to be overly negative on the portland. it's a good bike for the gofast crew, but for your average person who just wants a utility bike in the rain it's $1700 before you start upgrading the wheels.
otoh, for gsbarnes it might be a good way to solve two birds with one stone - gofast and cargo-y?
I think I want two bikes for two reasons: first, you can't really reconcile gofast with stuff like a Trail-A-Bike hitch (weighs a few pounds itself) and a rack, unless you're willing to do a lot of Allen wrench turning before every ride. Second, as episodes like this show, it's good to have a second bike available (assuming I can avoid getting both stolen at once). I had a similar problem when the Marin's wheel started disintegrating; no backup bike when I needed one.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:43 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
I have a 20" StumpJumper for sale.
Cheap too for all the upgrades it's had. Call me @ 7O3 5B2-441B
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:52 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
SeditiousCanary wrote:
I have a 20" StumpJumper for sale.
Cheap too for all the upgrades it's had. Call me @ 7O3 5B2-441B
Is this directed to anyone in particular? 20" seems too large for me, and therefore definitely too large for Langston. And doesn't the Stumpjumper come with suspension (which I don't want)?
Or maybe you're just putting out a random For Sale? Why the heck not, since Langston added a random WTB?
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:12 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
gsbarnes wrote:
And doesn't the Stumpjumper come with suspension (which I don't want)?
Mine is a 20", but the stand over is only 30.75". It may be too big for you, but it may not. It has suspension on it now, but I am including the OEM fork with the bike, so you can have me set it up anyway you like.
martin
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:47 pm
Joined: 30 Jan 2006Posts: 712
Alex wrote:
The highest gear is 50x12, good for 33.5 mph at 100rpm. When was the last time that you were cruising along the flats at that speed?
Strangelove towed me at ~33 from UW to Kenmore on our portland's earlier this spring. I think I threw up a little when we go there.
I live on top of Finn Hill and usually schlep a full bag and I find the 27 to be about right (and I run a double with 39-27). Maybe I'll change my tune when I hook up the Chariot with the little one.
If you have the means, I'd vote for a utility city bike and a fun road bike. Spending a little more on a road bike goes pretty far, and you can usually build up a functional mtn bike for pretty cheap. I've got some Scott LF-3 bars with 7sp shifters you can have if you can make use of them.
ripper
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:45 am
evilmikeJoined: 19 Apr 2006Posts: 640Location: Capitalist Hill
martin wrote:
I live on top of Finn Hill and usually schlep a full bag and I find the 27 to be about right (and I run a double with 39-27). Maybe I'll change my tune when I hook up the Chariot with the little one.
Menche, don't you ride cat2? You're experience is probably a lot different from a lot of ours. I like my 24t granny, thanks.
Responding to Miles: We talked about this before, too -- low spoke counts on the stock portland wheels are a serious bummer. Worse yet, finding a road spaced disc hub with an acceptable spoke hole count (32-36 spokes) was really hard when I was looking a year ago. The options for a 130mm spaced hub was about Phil Wood and Phil Wood. And who doesn't like a $400 hub?
The novara safari is okay, but man I hate the way that rack looks. Seriously, the portland has it right: disc mounting tab on the chainstay ftw.
_________________ Some of us like things. Some of us are just joyless, bitter assholes.
martin
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:31 pm
Joined: 30 Jan 2006Posts: 712
ripper wrote:
Menche, don't you ride cat2?
yeah - but ask Jamie - I can't climb.
ripper wrote:
low spoke counts on the stock portland wheels are a serious bummer. Worse yet, finding a road spaced disc hub with an acceptable spoke hole count (32-36 spokes) was really hard when I was looking a year ago. The options for a 130mm spaced hub was about Phil Wood and Phil Wood. And who doesn't like a $400 hub?
Worst part about the portland is the 130 spacing. The hub market for 130 disc is shit and other than Phil - all low-spoke, prefab crap. I think the Phil is north of 500 last I checked.
jamesw
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:52 pm
Joined: 18 Sep 2006Posts: 149
Some disc equipped 700c bikes worth checking out:
Kona's Dew series is nice. Kona also has the Sutra which is a steel-framed, disc brake-equipped touring bike. Check out Recycled Cycles, Second Ascent and Counterbalance for end of model year closeouts.
Rocky Mountain makes several that are similar to the Dew series including at least one with a steel frame (Gregg's carries RM)
Jamis' Coda series has steel frames and at least one model with disc brakes. See Freerange Cycles.
I have disc brakes on my commuter and like them a lot.
James
gsbarnes
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:18 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
jamesw wrote:
Some disc equipped 700c bikes worth checking out:
Kona's Dew series is nice. Kona also has the Sutra which is a steel-framed, disc brake-equipped touring bike. Check out Recycled Cycles, Second Ascent and Counterbalance for end of model year closeouts.
Rocky Mountain makes several that are similar to the Dew series including at least one with a steel frame (Gregg's carries RM)
Jamis' Coda series has steel frames and at least one model with disc brakes. See Freerange Cycles.
I have disc brakes on my commuter and like them a lot.
James
Turns out the back disc is incompatible with the Burley trailer, so that pretty much rules new disc bikes out for me.
I bought the Stumpjumper, trusting that we can make it fit me.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
jamesw
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:53 am
Joined: 18 Sep 2006Posts: 149
gsbarnes wrote:
Turns out the back disc is incompatible with the Burley trailer, so that pretty much rules new disc bikes out for me.
I bought the Stumpjumper, trusting that we can make it fit me.
Sounds like the ship may have sailed but for future reference, I think you just need the Standard Hitch or Alternative Hitch:
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
Yeah, I was thinking there ought to be a way, but the Recycled salesguy was telling me how he tried so hard to get a Burley trailer on a disc brake bike and failed, and I believed him (Recycled sells Burleys).
Way to go, Recycled!
On the other hand, this may help my wife, who also needs two bikes. Or one plus a new front fork.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
Alex
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:22 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006Posts: 3128Location: Roosevelt
gsbarnes wrote:
Yeah, I was thinking there ought to be a way, but the Recycled salesguy was telling me how he tried so hard to get a Burley trailer on a disc brake bike and failed, and I believed him (Recycled sells Burleys).
The alternative hitch does work great with disk brakes. We have one on our tandem and use it with a Burley Cargo. It has the downside of being very expensive (around $60 if I remember correctly).
For anyone else finding this thread in the future -- the Gunnar Rock Tour has the disk caliper in the right place too.
TrikerTrev
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:23 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
the rock tour IS a damn sexy ride...it'd be teh sweetest if it had a rigid front fork, IMO.
...and it's made in the good ole USA...bonus points!
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
lantius
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:06 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
somewhat relevant to this thread - i just saw this today.. anyone had any experience with one?
khs urban-x, $329 for 21spd, fenders, rear rack, and kickstand.
Alex
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:36 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006Posts: 3128Location: Roosevelt
You can buy the Rock Tour frame with a rigid fork. A friend in BC got one recently.
Lee -- That KHS bike has seriously anemic fenders.
On the cheap commuter bike front the Jamis Commuter 3.0 is okay. It cuts corners to make the price point (as most cheap bikes do). It's around $500 with 8sp internal hub and fenders on a urban MTBy type frame.
alex
henry
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:43 pm
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
Alex wrote:
That KHS bike has seriously anemic fenders.
Yeah i had the same thought. Why does it make sense for KHS to put those fender on there? Are they saving money by using 70% of the plastic they ought to? Was it an aesthetic decision?
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