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TrikerTrev

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:41 pm

Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 2303 Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!

martin wrote:

Aaron wrote:

There needs to be a clairfication of the law regarding bike lanes. If there is no bike lane, then it is indeed illegal for a bike to pass on the right.

Actually - it's legal for cyclists to pass on the right even if you're not in a bike lane:

http://cascade.org/Community/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=13&threadid=7777

Seattle Municipal Code:
SMC 11.44.080 Overtaking and passing on right.

The operator of a bicycle may overtake and pass a vehicle or a bicycle upon the right only under conditions permitting such movement in safety.

(Ord. 108200 Section 2(11.44.080), 1979.)

see, this is the thing thats cooking my noodle. we're allowed (and expected) by the rule of the law to try to travel with traffic as best as possible, stay right, bla, bla, bla.

then this shit happens and the focus turns to bikers being reckless, not wearing helmets, running lights, ect. when the reality is they were doing what we all (well, most) of us do daily...and the driver gets off scott free?!?

are you fucking kidding me?

god damn this shit pisses me off. why have laws if theyre not enforced...especially when its blatantly broken. What if it were a pedestrian? Would they still be like "oh gee, we know its hard to see those people walking. dont worry about it, you didnt do anything wrong, it wasn't your fault".

aaron is EXACTLY CORRECT. the sharrow will not change accidents like this, hell, they may make them more likely. what we NEED is signs...lots and LOTS of signs reminding people that bikes are on the road, and have the right to be there.

Until folks get it thru their damn thick head that bikes are allowed to be on the road and WE ARE THERE, we will all have to ride like we're fucking invisible.

_________________
Insufferable ass, est. 1969

applesauche

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:38 pm

Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 337 Location: Capitol Hill

dennyt wrote:

Denny, you are an amazing photographer as always

snyd3282

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:32 pm

could suck the fun out of a blowjob Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 588 Location: Ballard / Fremont

Damn, the kid was only 19.

Eric_s

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:24 am

Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 1691 Location: the dirty south

I shouldn't get angry. I shouldn't read the P.I. Comments section

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/soundoff/comment.asp?articleID=330848

Quote:

Posted by Arcfault at 9/9/07 2:32 a.m.

This is just further evidence to me that bicycles do not belong on our city streets.

_________________
That's Lemmy, Not Jesus.

vaticdart

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:42 am

Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 649 Location: Inside a Bell

Eric_s wrote:

I shouldn't get angry. I shouldn't read the P.I. Comments section

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/soundoff/comment.asp?articleID=330848

Quote:

Posted by Arcfault at 9/9/07 2:32 a.m.

This is just further evidence to me that bicycles do not belong on our city streets.

I'm all for trying to understand other people's realities, but honestly the anti-bicycle crowd has a pretty shallow and boring reality. It's the same who-ha and bs again and again... bicycles don't belong on the roads... bicycles are a menace, blah blah blah... sigh. Honestly, I think the whole bicyclists vs. motorists thing can be summed up like this: there are many assholes in this world, some of them drive cars, some of them ride bicycles. That said, it is far worse encountering an asshole motorists while on a bicycle than the other way around.

Has anyone heard anything else about the circumstances of this accident? I've never had it happen with a dump truck, but there have been plenty of times when I've started passing a car on the right who decides to turn right without signaling and almost gotten nailed.

_________________
If the river was whiskey I'd turn myself into a duck, I'd dive to the bottom and never come up.

vaticdart

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:04 am

Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 649 Location: Inside a Bell

Looks like they've identified the fatally crushed cyclists:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003876185_dige09m.html

Third item down.

_________________
If the river was whiskey I'd turn myself into a duck, I'd dive to the bottom and never come up.

ksep

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am

Joined: 27 Jan 2007 Posts: 1879 Location: Westlake

It seems to me that since the driver was moving laterally he did not have right of way.

http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/bikecode.htm

Quote:

Section 11.53.190 DRIVING IN A BICYCLE LANE. The operator of a motor vehicle shall not drive in a bicycle lane except to execute a turning maneuver, yielding to all persons riding bicycles thereon.

I think a nice strip of green paint extending all the way through the intersection would go a long way in reminding drivers that they're crossing a lane of traffic.

_________________
-Kevin

TrikerTrev

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:08 am

Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 2303 Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!

okay, it's near finalized...Foo, Surleycat, and I will be Ghostbiking the site.

The time is still tentative, but looks like this evening. When we have a time/meeting place, it will be communicated.

Hope some folks can make it.

p.s.
channel 13 reported another bike related death in the southern area of the state, but i cannot find any details.

_________________
Insufferable ass, est. 1969

Foo

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:25 am

Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 583

I got a call from Rogelio last night and he's game as well. I think we've got Trev, myself, Seven, SurlyKat and Rogelio. If anyone else wants in, just give me a ring.

I'm going to start working on stuff at my place around 3-4ish this afternoon. If folks want to c'mon over to help out (I could use some help cutting up the stencils and painting a sign for the bike) feel free.

I don't know exactly when we're going to go down to the site but assume sometime after dark tonight. Since I'm probably going to be online only sporadically today, phone's the best way to reach me to figure out details for that.

As for materials, I've got a fair amount, I think we could probably use some more cans of striping paint and some more stencil material if people have any.

Edit: I'll probably be working in my backyard. The access is through the gate in the fence on the North side of the house.

gsbarnes

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:17 am

Joined: 15 Aug 2006 Posts: 2666 Location: No Fun Town, USA

Does anyone know someone who knows Bryce Lewis (the cyclist who was killed)? SLB is working on planning a ride, but we don't want to step on the toes of Bryce's family or friends if they have something planned.

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I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions

FieryIrie

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:44 am

Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 554 Location: Wallingford

This is all so horrible.
All things said are right, and true. While those driving cars should make themselves aware of any possible pedestrians, cyclists etc. we should not expect this of these two ton bullets. Friggin death machines.
We have to cover ourselves.
I'm glad to have not lost a friend or acquaintance, though that makes the loss of this life no less valid. I send my regards to the family of Bryce and his injured friend.
I've got a lot going on this evening but if I can make it to the ghost ride I'd like to. Would someone call me when the time is set?
two oh six seven one eight six two oh three.
Love you, my bike community! Stay safe!

Foo

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:17 pm

Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 583

FYI in case anyone hadn't noticed, I was contacted by Bryce's family and they are very supportive of the idea of both the Ghostcycle and the memorial ride. There's a new thread where I'm covering the details.

dennyt

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:22 pm

rocket mechanic Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 2708

Portland has the right idea. I'm just sayin'...

TrikerTrev

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:18 pm

Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 2303 Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!

the bike is painted and stencils are being cut.

time to meet at the accident site is 8 pm.

questions call me @ 206604029 or foo @ 2063537765

peace bitches.

_________________
Insufferable ass, est. 1969

surlykat

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:25 pm

Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 658 Location: in the CD

gsbarnes wrote:

Having had contact with both family and friends, I think it's safe to say that our efforts are appreciated and we have a green-light for organizing a memorial bike ride.

That said, I'm leaving town on Thursday, so it's up to all you other assholes to get something together.

Aaron

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:02 pm

Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 4645

martin wrote:

Aaron wrote:

There needs to be a clairfication of the law regarding bike lanes. If there is no bike lane, then it is indeed illegal for a bike to pass on the right.

Perhaps this is a good time to take about universal road licenses. All users need to be more aware of others. Passing on the right near an intersection is risky. We need more education of all users. Blue pavement paint seems like a good idea.

wakingjonas

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:37 am

Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 62 Location: bitter lake

i was thinking back to when i was in driver's education and they always emphasized checking the crosswalks for pedestrians when you make a turn. Maybe it was my small town (not a heavy cycling area) but they never EVER made mention of checking your mirrors for cyclists on the right.

i would like to see all driver's education courses include cyclist awareness and learn the right of ways. I also like Aaron's idea of universal road licenses, but i'm also a fan of making people re-take the driver's exam after a period of 5-10 years. simply because you begin to take the act of driving for granted.

TrikerTrev

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:48 am

Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 2303 Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!

wakingjonas wrote:

i'm surprised that you dont have to retake them when you go in for a renewal. sure would make sense to do it then.

_________________
Insufferable ass, est. 1969

koos42

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:58 am

Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 367 Location: ON YOUR LEFT! your other left.

wakingjonas wrote:

Maybe it was my small town (not a heavy cycling area) but they never EVER made mention of checking your mirrors for cyclists on the right.

Strangely enough in my high school driving course (in Tacoma) they did emphasize checking mirrors for bikes when turning right or when changing lanes. It may have just been my instructor (fat funny math teacher, not a biker). Whenever we wouldn't overtly check our mirrors for bikes or peds, or if we were driving too far to the right he would say loudly and sharply, "YOU JUST KILLED A BIKER".

Though driver's ed was kind of a joke, especially the work book (with a coloring section?), I have to give my instructor mad props for the bike awareness!

wakingjonas

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:00 am

Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 62 Location: bitter lake

TrikerTrev wrote:

i'm surprised that you dont have to retake them when you go in for a renewal. sure would make sense to do it then.

at least take the written again at renewal. they had me do that when i got a licence in alaska because i was from out of state. it probably has more to do with severely understaffed dmv offices and the sheer number of licensed drivers. that is a government entity that just cries out for an overhaul.

zuvembi

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:27 am

Joined: 24 Jul 2005 Posts: 942 Location: Little Addis Ababa

gsbarnes wrote:

My rule since then: never pass a car/truck/etc. on the right that is moving or about to move. And still, on my last trip in Portland, I almost got nailed under the same circumstances. The temptation to pass is almost too great to pass up.

This was pretty much my thoughts. I'm always super careful around right turns and large trucks like dump trucks, goods vehicles and semis.

The bike community in the UK has found that with the increase in ridership in London (from the congestion fee), bike/car accident rates are down (i.e., riding is even better than it was). But most of the fatalities are coming from people get crushed by large vehicles in this same fashion.

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When the revolution comes, we're going to need a longer wall

protaghiro

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:44 am

Joined: 24 Jul 2005 Posts: 52

when i was learning to drive, i remember one thing that my dad said in particular:

it doesn't matter if you have the right of way if you're dead.

while this sounds harsh given the current issue there is a grain of truth to it. relying on drivers to notice us would be great, but in reality it is not going to happen quickly. drivers have a hard enough time noticing other cars, let alone bicyclists.

drivers (and bicyclists) break the law nearly every time they drive or ride, whether it is speeding, crossing the yellow line, illegal u turn, the list goes on and on.

unless i have made eye contact with a driver who is beside me, i assume that they have no idea i am there, and i ride accordingly. when in doubt, assume that everyone else on the road is blind and take appropriate action.

SeditiousCanary

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:48 am

sorry, can't make it! Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 2315 Location: Fremont Troll

[quote="protaghiro"]unless i have made eye contact with a driver who is beside me[/quote]
I actually find this to be one of the lest effective means of assuring my safety. You're far better to assume they can't see you ever, and ride accordingly.

"You are all just big moving orange safety cones to me. I'll"

henry

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:56 am

somewhat piggish Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 5415 Location: on porch with shotgun

protaghiro wrote:

a bunch of stuff i agree with

this also goes for lights at night ...

I was out for a drive last night and noticed yet again how hard it is to see people with no lights at night. I'm pretty aware of bikes when i drive (probably moreso than cars ... that's one of many reasons i'm a horrible driver) and a couple of people snuck up on me last night.

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winter men

Foo

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:08 pm

Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 583

No argument here. I'm always dismayed when I see bicyclists relying upon the reflectors for night riding. Those really are not enough by a long shot. I'd even argue that most LED headlights are nowhere near bright enough either.

Rogelio

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:30 pm

Joined: 31 Jul 2007 Posts: 3092 Location: Pos, aya, por la Corona-Alta-Madera y que no.

henry wrote:

Surlykat and I were out driving last night and saw so many cyclists without lights that we resorted to yelling at them to "GET SOME LIGHTS!" Light pollution activists' ride night was apparently yesterday evening.

There was one particular guy to struck me as reckless, he was a dark-skinned male on a dark bike, wearing a black helmet and dark clothing, riding down Denny.

I should really upgrade my headlight too.

henry

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:46 pm

somewhat piggish Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 5415 Location: on porch with shotgun

Dear Lee Williams-

I am trying to troll you into arguing that lights are not required equiptment for the safe cyclist. Please respond with the afore mentioned ludicrous claim so that we can engage in what the children these days refer to as a "Flame war".

Many thanks,

Mr. J. Henry Rose.

_________________
winter men

Remington

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:01 pm

Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 457 Location: Remington Country

henry wrote:

I hate driving at night, because I'm usually in a Ford Explorer with tinted windows, and I can't see shit without rolling them down. I worry for the poor cyclists that ride without lights on dark roads, and I hate when my batteries die.

God I hate that Explorer.

denny wrote:

Same goes for oncoming cars turning left - after getting hit by one of those, I'm predisposed to think they're all out to get me.

I got involved with three oncoming cars racing to make a left through a yellow, each following the one in front blindly. I'm lucky that I was walking after getting hit by the third.

I've also had a driver make the same typical dangerous right turn on me. After pushing off her car while making an emergency turn myself, and some near instant reflex cursing, she had this look through the back window like "oh, did I do something wrong?" Hell yeah you did lady, and you should've known I was there, because I had just stopped and skipped through the red you were waiting at, and you had just passed me .5 seconds ago...

I must be angrier now about that incident than I was at the time. I'm in a ranting mood now.

lantius

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:02 pm

1337 Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 6705 Location: right over

wait, do you mean safe as in "no one in this bicycle club" or safe as in "langston after payday"?

koos42

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:13 pm

Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 367 Location: ON YOUR LEFT! your other left.

Last night I had to ride w/o my headlight. It broke off earlier that ride. I totally was nearly run over by a pickup on 36th. It was totally my fault, not having a light, I was just lucky that he saw me when he did. I'll have to start carrying spare lights too now...

1 night, 0 light, 1 near miss. I wouldn't last long...

Foo

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:48 pm

Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 583

I usually ride with two LED blinkers and two headlights for that reason. However, my spare headlight is AWOL, I lent it to Alyson Rae the night of the Mosquito fleet party.

Anyone talked to her lately? I'd like to get it back as I'm about to start monkeying around with my primary light and the backup's going to be a bit more important as a result.

ksep

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:49 pm

Joined: 27 Jan 2007 Posts: 1879 Location: Westlake

Remington wrote:

I got involved with three oncoming cars racing to make a left through a yellow, each following the one in front blindly. I'm lucky that I was walking after getting hit by the third.

Word! Same thing happened to me on Saturday except I wasn't really hurt, they just grazed my hand. The white LED man was still telling me to go even, hadn't even gotten to the point of flashy red hand. Right downtown by the greyhound station, Stewart & 8th. Grrrr.

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-Kevin

snyd3282

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:52 pm

could suck the fun out of a blowjob Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 588 Location: Ballard / Fremont

My understanding is that the AARP is the biggest reason why we don't have a manditory written test when you renew your license. They have a lot of lobbying power and many of their members are afraid of losing their licenses because they aren't safe to drive anymore.

wakingjonas wrote:

TrikerTrev wrote:

i'm surprised that you dont have to retake them when you go in for a renewal. sure would make sense to do it then.

jeff

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:58 pm

SOC pussy Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 4501

Everyday I play this game at the intersection of Dexter and Mercer. It's called "count how many cars run the red light as they turn east on to Mercer."

The record so far is 8. They usually do it in a train-like pattern, following as close to the original yellow-light runner as possible.

Foo

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:04 pm

Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 583

jeff wrote:

That's a fun game! My record is 6.

Another fun game is count the Eastbound crazy red light runners on Denny and Dexter. A few weeks after I started my current commute, I came a couple inches from getting T-boned by a car doing about 60 that entered the intersection a good second or two after our light turned green. He almost took the fronts off a couple cars too.

wakingjonas

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:36 pm

Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 62 Location: bitter lake

snyd3282 wrote:

wakingjonas wrote:

TrikerTrev wrote:

i'm surprised that you dont have to retake them when you go in for a renewal. sure would make sense to do it then.

god. that's just fantastic. driving is a privilege not a right.

surlykat

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:25 pm

Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 658 Location: in the CD

Foo wrote:

Describe said LED headlight. I picked one up in the grass at that party, no one in the vicinity claimed it, so I've been using it as it was nicer than my old one. If it's yours, you can have it back.

Foo

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:36 pm

Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 583

surlykat wrote:

Describe said LED headlight. I picked one up in the grass at that party, no one in the vicinity claimed it, so I've been using it as it was nicer than my old one. If it's yours, you can have it back.

The headlight is a triple LED that's sort of a triangular prism in shape and has a swinging arms that locks around the handlebars.

I'm pretty sure the one you have isn't mine as I gave the headlight to her after we left the party. Maybe I should go to Zeke's and start recreating the "How much for the weeemeeeennnnn." part of Blues Brothers until I get my light back...

seth_seth

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:55 pm

Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 92 Location: Blard!

i went to the intersection today after work to drop off some flowers. in the flower shop was another cyclist doing the same thing. i walked my bike over and was immediately overcome with emotion. i don't generally go all teary-eyed for someone i don't know, but all of the flowers and notes left at the spot, along with the ghostcycle really hit home for some reason.

i set my flowers down, and kind of knelt down for a moment, looking at things. i could only stay for a minute because i felt like i was going to breakdown right there. but it felt good to pay respects to another guy who probably loved riding bikes as much as i do. it's good to honor that memory.

rest in peace, bryce.

wakingjonas

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:16 pm

Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 62 Location: bitter lake

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_091007WAB_skateboard_dump_truck_TP.bfcde4fb.html

do we need to fit all dumptrucks with 360 degree cameras?

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