Seattle Likes Bikes organizer Chris Nygaard said Tuesday's protest, in which participants are encouraged to follow traffic laws, will show that the sharrows on Stone Way North "will actually impede traffic more than it would have prior."
I missed the first protest ride so I don't know what the strategy is. Is everyone already clear on the traffic laws we're "encouraged" to follow? My understanding is that we can ride side-by-side, two bikes in a lane. Is this correct? Is the intent to ride two-by-two up Stone way in both lanes or just in the right lane?
_________________ "I take it from your glum demeanor that your ill-advised foray into time-travel destroyed yet another reality."
laura
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:22 am
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
Raindog wrote:
I missed the first protest ride so I don't know what the strategy is. Is everyone already clear on the traffic laws we're "encouraged" to follow?
A ride guide will be available that outlines "legal", but you already have the gist. Two-by-two in the right lane headed up Stone, then we signal (use some sort of hand signal) to change lanes, stop at stop signs, stop at red lights, don't jump green lights, etc. In essence, it's the exact opposite of Critical Mass.
In the original ride, having hundreds of riders spread out two-by-two along the route snarled traffic quite effectively and it was totally legal. Not a damn thing anyone could do about it.
Foo
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:29 am
Joined: 27 Jul 2007Posts: 583
Oh C'mon you fuckers, SOMEBODY volunteer to do the NPR interview. I volunettered to do it if no one else did and I really, really don't want to do it. I don't even like NPR.
lantius
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:32 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
Foo wrote:
Oh C'mon you fuckers, SOMEBODY volunteer to do the NPR interview. I volunettered to do it if no one else did and I really, really don't want to do it. I don't even like NPR.
why not send them to david hiller? seattle likes bikes isn't about tlalking to people and sounding reasonable, it's about getting out there and making a flurry of activity so broken shit gets noticed, squeaky wheels get greased, and cyclists don't die from terrible road treatments.
n_claw
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:34 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
Foo wrote:
Oh C'mon you fuckers, SOMEBODY volunteer to do the NPR interview. I volunettered to do it if no one else did and I really, really don't want to do it. I don't even like NPR.
Nygaard tapped in.
Foo
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:36 am
Joined: 27 Jul 2007Posts: 583
Whew, Thank you Mssr. Canary.
vaticdart
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:49 am
Joined: 02 Aug 2007Posts: 649Location: Inside a Bell
TrikerTrev wrote:
looks like a wonderful day for a bike ride! (if you're a fish)
Yeah, second on that. The ride in this morning was quite fun!
I'm not so sure about this POB theme. Part of why I stopped wearing normal street clothes while riding was impossible it was to stay dry with any kind of real rain. I don't know if I feel like spending an hour riding in circles while soaking wet in my khakis and dress shirt, especially if I'm going to come out on tonight's ride afterward.
That said, I've got my fenders on, my waterproof booties and helmet cover, so I'll be there, dressed one way or another, or not at all.
_________________ If the river was whiskey I'd turn myself into a duck, I'd dive to the bottom and never come up.
snyd3282
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:35 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
I am willing to get soaked, but I won't complain if everyone wants to wear rain gear.
Just a couple updates:
1. The city council postponed the meeting to adopt the bicycle master plan. Not sure what that means for us. Cascade is trying to figure it out.
2. On the Burke Gilman trail, everything under the Fremont Bridge approach on the north side of the canal is paved, but SDOT still has it fenced off and I am hearing estimates ranging from sometime late this week to sometime next month before the under-the-approach detour will be open and months before the trail will be back to the original route.
gsbarnes
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:50 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
laura wrote:
Raindog wrote:
I missed the first protest ride so I don't know what the strategy is. Is everyone already clear on the traffic laws we're "encouraged" to follow?
A ride guide will be available that outlines "legal", but you already have the gist. Two-by-two in the right lane headed up Stone, then we signal (use some sort of hand signal) to change lanes, stop at stop signs, stop at red lights, don't jump green lights, etc. In essence, it's the exact opposite of Critical Mass.
In the original ride, having hundreds of riders spread out two-by-two along the route snarled traffic quite effectively and it was totally legal. Not a damn thing anyone could do about it.
You can download the ride guide for your individual use. Who's going to print out a few hundred copies for everyone?
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
gsbarnes
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:55 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
snyd3282 wrote:
I am willing to get soaked, but I won't complain if everyone wants to wear rain gear.
I'm pretty sure normal street clothes in Seattle during a rainstorm involves a lot of Goretex.
Having said that, I believe the weather this afternoon should not be as wet as this morning.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
vaticdart
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:59 am
Joined: 02 Aug 2007Posts: 649Location: Inside a Bell
gsbarnes wrote:
I'm pretty sure normal street clothes in Seattle during a rainstorm involves a lot of Goretex.
Having said that, I believe the weather this afternoon should not be as wet as this morning.
Mmmm, full Goretex rain suit while riding. My own personal sauna!
It's still pretty damn wet out there right now, but I don't think it's raining or blowing as hard as it was earlier. I work right by Gasworks, btw, I'm looking out at the intersection of 34th and Meridian as I write this.
Last edited by vaticdart on Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ If the river was whiskey I'd turn myself into a duck, I'd dive to the bottom and never come up.
laura
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:01 am
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
gsbarnes wrote:
Who's going to print out a few hundred copies for everyone?
I have 50 to contribute.
TrikerTrev
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:10 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
Raindog wrote:
Seattle PI wrote:
Seattle Likes Bikes organizer Chris Nygaard said Tuesday's protest, in which participants are encouraged to follow traffic laws, will show that the sharrows on Stone Way North "will actually impede traffic more than it would have prior."
I missed the first protest ride so I don't know what the strategy is. Is everyone already clear on the traffic laws we're "encouraged" to follow? My understanding is that we can ride side-by-side, two bikes in a lane. Is this correct? Is the intent to ride two-by-two up Stone way in both lanes or just in the right lane?
heres the "ride guide"
Ride for Fremont 2.0 Guide
Ride Legally:
• Two by two in the lane. Find a buddy and stick with them.
• Stop for red lights and stop signs. Maintain your place in traffic.
• Use hand signals of some sort.
• Respect motorists by obeying all traffic laws.
Remember:
• Drivers are potential allies – Answer their questions politely!
• Stay in Fremont after the ride and have a coffee, beer, or dinner.
• Talk to Fremont business owners, employees, and customers about the ride. Generate support!
• Direct those wanting more info to: www.seattlelikesbikes.org
Talking Points:
• A bike lane connecting the Burke-Gilman Trail to Green Lake via Stone Way is a key element of the Bicycle Master Plan.
• A bike lane is crucial going north on Stone Way due to the speed differential between bikes and motor vehicles.
• The City removed the bike lane between 34th and 40th based on complaints from a small group of businesses and faulty traffic analysis. Independent analysis of Stone Way shows a bike lane will not cause congestion as projected by the City.
• Removing the Stone Way bike lane sets a horrible precedent for the future of the Bicycle Master Plan
• The Stone Way bike lane is supported by: Fremont families and businesses, area groups such as the Fremont Neighborhood Council, and bicycling and pedestrian advocacy groups.
To avoid congestion on the Burke-Gilman Trail at the start of the ride, consider taking Northlake Way, N 34th St, or N 35th St (around the transfer station) to get onto Stone Way.
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
Foo
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:11 am
Joined: 27 Jul 2007Posts: 583
laura wrote:
I have 50 to contribute.
I'll toss in another 30-40. Let's see if Laura gets busted again!
Raindog
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:19 am
Joined: 12 Sep 2007Posts: 51Location: Fremont
Foo wrote:
laura wrote:
I have 50 to contribute.
I'll toss in another 30-40.
I'll print 100. I'm guessing that'll be plenty given the weather we're facing. do you mind if I make this 2-sided and 1/2 page size so the route is easier to read and we save some trees?
_________________ "I take it from your glum demeanor that your ill-advised foray into time-travel destroyed yet another reality."
laura
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:04 pm
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
lantius wrote:
someone needs to explain to them that it's not really about the sharrows, it's about the climbing lane and the confusing multiple configurations.
Again, Lee knows everything. Follow him for the best route home after a Tues/Thurs night and listen to him here.
Things to stress this afternoon:
a) the weaving movements (bikes and cars trying to carve out space) from the retained 4-lane section of Stone Way create unnecessary hazards.
b) the sharrows in the uphill direction, combined with the weaving movements leads to greater rather than fewer hazards.
Sharrows are OK in other settings, but we’d like the safer road diet and a “Climbing lane” uphill bike lane.
joeball
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:11 pm
Joined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 6037Location: Ether
laura wrote:
lantius wrote:
someone needs to explain to them that it's not really about the sharrows, it's about the climbing lane and the confusing multiple configurations.
Again, Lee knows everything. Follow him for the best route home after a Tues/Thurs night and listen to him here.
Things to stress this afternoon:
a) the weaving movements (bikes and cars trying to carve out space) from the retained 4-lane section of Stone Way create unnecessary hazards.
b) the sharrows in the uphill direction, combined with the weaving movements leads to greater rather than fewer hazards.
Sharrows are OK in other settings, but we’d like the safer road diet and a “Climbing lane” uphill bike lane.
That and the 4 lane or (2 lane + 2 sharrow) still makes pedestrian crossings more dangerous. Seattle likes bikes AND pedestrians.
snyd3282
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:28 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
Let me know if I screwed anything up...I can do a quick change if needed.
gsbarnes
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:33 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
Raindog wrote:
Foo wrote:
laura wrote:
I have 50 to contribute.
I'll toss in another 30-40.
I'll print 100. I'm guessing that'll be plenty given the weather we're facing. do you mind if I make this 2-sided and 1/2 page size so the route is easier to read and we save some trees?
Sounds good to me. Here's the original .doc if that helps:
_________________ "I take it from your glum demeanor that your ill-advised foray into time-travel destroyed yet another reality."
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:55 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
n_claw wrote:
Nygaard tapped in.
Tho I never heard from them and they are not responding to my calls or e-mails. Did they mean tomorrow?
Sheesh
koos42
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:09 pm
Joined: 10 Jul 2007Posts: 367Location: ON YOUR LEFT! your other left.
DOUG. wrote:
Nice work everyone. I wish I could've helped more in the organizing stage, but I'll be there today with this sign in tow. Feel free to use it. I have a link HERE. And a link to a couple of oldies-but-goodies HERE.
On the topic of Suzie Burke, I found out from Charles of Wright Bros. Bike Works, that she bought everything from Wright Bros. (non-inclusive) east to the end of the block.
Perfect, I'll print these out instead. I remember that the full page version was a pain.
I was trying to figure out the first left turn off of Stone and had a fun time pulling the uber-folded full page ride guide out of my pocket, unfolding it and trying to ride at the same time.
lantius
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:27 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
i think, given the support of the other groups, a better phrasing or the "talking points" or "key issues" as they might also be called would highlight the whole road diet rather than just the bicycle lane.
i definitely do not want people to misunderstand the needed treatments on stone way - a return to the bmp-agreed three lane + climbing bike lane configuration just like north of 40th is the goal, not bike lanes both ways.
i know it's a little bit on the late side for anyone who's already printing these out, but this might be better:
Key Issues
* A bicycle route along Stone Way connecting the Burke-Gilman Trail to Green Lake is a key element of the Bicycle Master Plan.
* Changing Stone Way to one lane each direction with a turn lane and a bicycle "climbing" lane uphill is safer for cyclists, pedestrians, and motor vehicles.
* Stone Way already has this configuration north of 40th, making the intersections at 40th and Bridge streets dangerous and confusing.
* The city backed down on the original plan between 34th and 40th based on complaints from a small group of businesses and a faulty traffic analysis. Independent analysis of Stone Way shows that changing the road will not cause congestion.
* Leaving the dangerous configuration on Stone Way south of 40th sets a horrible precedent for the future of the Bicycle Master Plan, the Complete Streets Ordinance, and the upcoming Pedestrian Master Plan.
* The Stone Way road diet is supported by Fremont families and businesses, area groups such as the Fremont Neighborhood Council, and bicycling and pedestrian advocacy groups.
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:55 pm
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
I'm making a 1/4 page flyer to hand out to cars and pedestrians. If no one has any objections to the text, I'll start printing them out. Here's the proposed text (mostly lifted from Lee):
[edited to fix a couple typos]
• As part of the comprehensive transportation initiative passed last year, Stone way was to be converted to one lane each direction with a turn lane and a bicycle "climbing" lane uphill. This ‘road diet’ has been shown to help the flow of traffic on roads and reduce car accidents on roads with large numbers of turning vehicles as well as increasing safety for bicyclists and pedestrians.
• Stone Way already has this configuration north of 40th, making the intersections at 40th and Bridge streets dangerous and confusing when the road changes configurations.
• The city backed down on the original plan between 34th and 40th based on complaints from a small group of businesses and a faulty traffic analysis. Independent analysis of Stone Way shows that changing the road will not cause congestion.
• Leaving the dangerous configuration on Stone Way south of 40th sets a horrible precedent for the future of the Bicycle Master Plan, the Complete Streets Ordinance, and the upcoming Pedestrian Master Plan.
• The Stone Way road diet is supported by Fremont families and businesses, area groups such as the Fremont Neighborhood Council, and bicycling and pedestrian advocacy groups.
Last edited by Foo on Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
snyd3282
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:44 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
The weather right now is nice and sunny in Fremont.
A sprinkle starting at about 5:30, not a bad estimate.
If I learned anything during the ride it's that 5:00 is just to early. There wasn't even a glut of cars in the street at 5; the traffic didn't come until 5:30. BtAH said it well, "I work for myself and I couldn't make it here by 5."
So, meet 5 ride 5:30 next time, IMHO, IMHO.
The turn out was pretty good considering the awful weather this morning. I counted 40 when we started and we picked up a few riders along the way. They asked "is this the Stoneway ride?" so we could probably use better individual signs like the 1st ride. I'd estimate we ended up with about 50-60 people.
The news guys got footage / photos on our first pass up stoneway when we were still together in one bunch so it'll probably look good on tv/the paper. Laura, you may be pleased to know that David Hiller was interviewed later in the ride at around 5:45.
Thanks for showing up folks.
_________________ -Kevin
laura
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:45 pm
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
Just to add to Kevin's update, lots of cheers & support from cars along Stone during our first loop and LOTS of cheers from business owners. If anyone frequents the kite shop, the hair studio, the bead store, or the other supportive shops along Stone Way, be sure to tell them THANKS!
In other news, if there is a .83er who is dying to be the mouthpiece of SeattleLikesBikes, there is demand. Seattle Times, Seattle PI, Fox 15, Komo4, King5 ... heck, new man on the scene Raindog (aka Jeremy) took an interview for this ride. You too can be misquoted! kidding, kidding. We all know that is only with The Stranger. ;)
snyd3282
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:37 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
I hear that we made the 11:00 KOMO-TV news. :)
Did anyone catch it and/or record it?
TrikerTrev
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:11 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
laura wrote:
Just to add to Kevin's update, lots of cheers & support from cars along Stone during our first loop and LOTS of cheers from business owners. If anyone frequents the kite shop, the hair studio, the bead store, or the other supportive shops along Stone Way, be sure to tell them THANKS!
I told the ladies at the kite store and the salon about this. They are totally behind us 'cause they want the bikes off the sidewalk...the doors open into out and there have been some real close calls.
laura wrote:
In other news, if there is a .83er who is dying to be the mouthpiece of SeattleLikesBikes, there is demand. Seattle Times, Seattle PI, Fox 15, Komo4, King5 ... heck, new man on the scene Raindog (aka Jeremy) took an interview for this ride. You too can be misquoted! kidding, kidding. We all know that is only with The Stranger. ;)
Uh, ya know i'll talk if someone is sent my way...i just didnt have time to do the radio interview, or i would have done that.
...unless using a grumpy, sailor mouthed, overly passionate, and often loaded spokes person is a bad idea.
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:45 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
laura wrote:
In other news, if there is a .83er who is dying to be the mouthpiece of SeattleLikesBikes, there is demand.
I'm hip to it. You can point them to me.
gsbarnes
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:49 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
abamfici wrote:
A sprinkle starting at about 5:30, not a bad estimate.
If I learned anything during the ride it's that 5:00 is just to early. There wasn't even a glut of cars in the street at 5; the traffic didn't come until 5:30. BtAH said it well, "I work for myself and I couldn't make it here by 5."
So, meet 5 ride 5:30 next time, IMHO, IMHO.
We were afraid of the dark when we picked the time. Really. Maybe 5:30-6:30 could have worked yesterday, but it was borderline (sunset at 6:45 and cloudy at best).
Protests after sunset don't generate a lot of interest, although I guess we could all carry flares or something.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
laura
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:25 am
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
COVERAGE:
There is a (pretty large) pic from the ride on the cover of the Local section of the Seattle PI with a caption. That's all I have found.
TrikerTrev
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:43 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
there was a pic in the local of the Times with a sentance as well, but thats all ive seen.
damn!
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
chad
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:47 am
Joined: 02 Oct 2007Posts: 20Location: downtown
hi
Nice to ride with you guys last night and match faces to names.
Look forward to seeing more of you in future rides.
derrickito
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:51 am
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
that was posted monday...i was hoping for some current footage.
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
Aaron
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:37 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
"They're really confusing for both motorists and cars," Seattle Likes Bikes organizer Laura Rabuck said of the bike-and-chevron images painted in the right side of traffic lanes. "We don't want the mayor or City Council to think we're OK with the sharrows."
Wait just a minute.... I thought "we" just didn't want Sharrows on Stone. Weren't we only lobbying for a bike lane there? Sharrows are great on other streets. Streets like Beach Drive. Since they have been put in, I have not once been honked at! I think they let cars know that bikes can be there.
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