could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
Maybe this gets into Seattle Likes Bikes territory too much, but I attended the Seattle Bicycle Advisory Board meeting last week and was surprised at a few things.
This is a mayor appointed board of 12 people who advise the mayor, SDOT, the city council, and others ranging from SPD to DPD on bicycle issues.
Their meetings are open to the public, from 6-8pm on the first Wednesday of the month in City Hall, but the doors to City Hall lock promptly at 6pm so you have to get there early.
The first thing that amazed me is that there were only 22 people in the room, 2 were Hiller and McGrath from CBC, 4 were people applying for positions on the board, then there were the board members, a couple guests, and SDOT folks. Want to get the mayor's attention on Eastlake? One of the board members first found out about Bryce's death from Erica's "fixie" article!
It was cool to get so much information. The SDOT presenter, Pete Lagerway gave out a lot of bike count data, work that SDOT did this year and work that SDOT has planned for next year.
It sounds like we WILL get Green bike lanes (like the blue lanes) just south of the Fremont Bridge at Florentia, at Dexter & Denny, at 145th & Linden, at Fremont next to the Waiting for the Interurban statue, and at Greenlake Way & 50th. We will NOT be getting Green bike lanes at Eastlake and Fuhrman because it doesn't meet SDOT's guidelines for using them.
SDOT is also trying to create a bicycle boulevard from the interurban south with stoplights that let pedestrians and bicycle go straight and force cars to turn at 80th & Fremont, 85th & Fremont, and 105th ... down to either Linden or 8th (if I understood it right) to get to the Burke Gilman and then to Dexter to get downtown.
This year they have already added 19.5 miles of sharrows, bike lanes, or sharrows and bike lanes and they finished the chief sealth trail.
If you'd like to join them, the board is having a bikeability tour of the chief sealth trail and Beacon Ave S. sharrows on Oct 21. meeting at Uwajimaya at 10am.
I came away realizing that this group has the ability to request a represenative from DPD, SDOT, SPD and others to attend or present at their meeting and that this group gets listened to by SDOT.
If y'all are interested, I'm going to try to keep attending and I'll report any news back here. I'll probably start a blog too since the advisory board hasn't posted their meeting minutes since 2003.
Posting a blog would be super cool. I want to believe that SDOT, the City of Seattle and Mayor Nickels aren't a bunch of bumbling idiots and antibike like a lot of discussion seems to be. The fact that they opened 19.5 miles is great. A blog would help them get the word out about the good stuff going on. It'd also be a tool for us to know where to continue to apply pressure. The fact that one member found out about Bryce via an after-the-fact essay tells me that's one place to dial in.
Ghostbike anyone? We've been talking about it...
langston
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:35 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
see, this is how change is affected in this city, not by whily nily protest "rides". I'll try to get to the next month's meeting, I'd like to bring some beef representing the West Sizzle. At least they do SOMETHING in Fremont!
Raindog
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:25 am
Joined: 12 Sep 2007Posts: 51Location: Fremont
Thanks for the great update! This is on my calendar now; I'll try to attend future meetings. Maybe the SLB website could mention the meeting info as well to generate more interest?
_________________ "I take it from your glum demeanor that your ill-advised foray into time-travel destroyed yet another reality."
the dreaded ben
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:41 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
Quote:
Their meetings are open to the public, from 6-8pm on the first Wednesday of the month in City Hall, but the doors to City Hall lock promptly at 6pm so you have to get there early.
i'll be there next month.
you should give a shout out the monday before, just to remind those of us that have lost their short term memory.
gsbarnes
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:43 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
langston wrote:
see, this is how change is affected in this city, not by whily nily protest "rides". I'll try to get to the next month's meeting, I'd like to bring some beef representing the West Sizzle. At least they do SOMETHING in Fremont!
That's right. Thanks to the Seattle Bicycle Advisory Board, the Burke-Gilman Trail under the Fremont Bridge will be open this year instead of October 2008.
Oh, wait, no, that isn't true at all. It took actual pressure in the form of complaints and a protest ride to get the city to decide not to roll over for Suzie Burke in Fremont.
It takes both protest and meetings like this. Not just one or the other. If you don't believe me, ask the fine establishment pillars of the fine establishment Cascade Bicycle Club, David Hiller and Patrick McGrath.
P.S. By all means, attend the next SBAB and complain about West Seattle. Anything is better than grousing on forums like this (like I'm doing now).
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
rlotz
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:25 pm
Joined: 23 Jan 2006Posts: 311Location: Capitol Hill
I almost applied to open positions, but felt I had too much else to do. I've been to a couple meetings in the past, even presented methods to provide bicycle trip planning to the city. The meetings are definitely informative, and it would be great to get a voice on there from people who really view the bicycle as a true transportation solution. They've got a hard job of balancing politics and reason, and I imagine could use help from citizens. Posting to a blog is a great idea, but might I suggest consolidating it to an existing blog? Perhaps something on Seattle Likes Bikes or http://bikeseattle.org/ ? I believe the operator of the later would happily provide you an account to post updates.
That reminds me, I need to find out what the dashed lines on eastlake (under the bridge) are for. I really hope they aren't planning to extend the planted median like it looks like. That area of narrow lane causes a nasty hazard for bicycles _and_ cars.
gsbarnes
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:35 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
rlotz wrote:
That reminds me, I need to find out what the dashed lines on eastlake (under the bridge) are for. I really hope they aren't planning to extend the planted median like it looks like. That area of narrow lane causes a nasty hazard for bicycles _and_ cars.
They want a median at the crosswalk at Allison/Eastlake, to make it safer for pedestrians. One instance where they had an unsignalized crosswalk and they decided not to take it out. A few weeks ago there was a sign to this effect on the east side of the street at the crosswalk.
In general, I think narrowing lanes via curbs and medians slows cars down and is good. In this specific case I agree there is a problem southbound due to the bicycle lane ending at Harvard and the forced merge the parking causes. I've never had a problem northbound, but you undoubtedly ride it more often than I do.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
coupdegrace
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:54 pm
Joined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 168
I've been to a few of these meetings and the bike death-lane lovers and the training wheels backslappers just make me want to puke!
Go if you can stomach them.
I've been to a few of these meetings and the bike death-lane lovers and the training wheels backslappers just make me want to puke!
Go if you can stomach them.
Eh? Please elaborate.
coupdegrace
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:49 pm
Joined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 168
ok i went to the meeting when Wayne Wentz executive vice-schmuck of SDOT un-expectedly attended and attempted to explain the dismissal of Pauh Wang and the demotion of Peter Lagerway from the SDOT bicycle dept. or whatever it is or was called. I must say I did not find his presentation at all sincere. But I really didn't care because I think Peter Lagerway has for years prevented or impeded transportation cycling in Seattle in favor of recreational cycling and has in many instances implemented facilites designs that direct cyclists to use crosswalks and become pedestrains instead of cyclist with equal rights to the use of our roads. David Hiller chased after Wayne in the hall when he left the meeting and they talked about who knows what (hallway politics) until after the the meeting was over.
While at one of the other meetings the board when asked who do they advise could not answer the question nor did they know how to present their recommendations even if they knew to whom they would send them.
The board is full of whiners and complainers who aspired to become board members because they feel a white stripe will keep them safe. I think that it is a feel good group that the mayor created to give the appearance of caring about cyclists and that Peter Lagerway is the SDOT/mayors apologist.
I also attended the meeting after Susanne Scaringi's death/killing which coincidently coincided with a scheduled appearance by Seattle City Attorney Tom Carr. Tom was very informative about the law and legal protocol. I worked with Tom on city councilman Richard Conlin's Bicycle Facilities Collaborative SW region group back in 2004. The finding s of which were all apparently shitcanned so we could pay the Toole group to start over from scratch to devise the BMP with mega-input from trainingwheels.org. We met and worked on this informational study of Seattle bike routes in Aaron Goss' shop several times. Tom showed his true colors while on this project, he is a bicycle seperatist, he believes that bikes should ride on difficult and little used roads to stay out of the way of cars for motorists convenience and his safety, that is why he rides up SW City View St from Spokane St to access the sidewalk on Admiral Way.
I'm sick now! i think i need to puke.
Remember boys and girls, Integration not segregation is the direct route to freedom to cycle wherever you desire and the end of automotive oppression and domination.
snyd3282
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:14 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
The board positions are only 1-2 years, and it is filled by normal citizens, and yes, I saw some cluelessness too when a couple board members were peppering the SDOT rep with questions that are DPD's domain not SDOT's (specifically about bike parking requirements in office buildings).
These folks are appointed by the Mayor and go through an interview, so I do suspect that there is an attempt to weed out potential rabble rousers.
Personally, I think we need a mix of facilities. I think that there are still some SDOT folks and a LOT of WSDOT folks that need to learn more about bicycle safety and that need to get out of the mindset that a bicycle is something that slows cars down and needs to be moved out of the way. That said, I think we all quality as unintimitated cyclists. When I talk to newbie (first time on a bike ever was a year ago) cyclists, they consider going from Fremont to Ballard on the Burke -> 45th -> Shillshole -> 17th -> Ballard Ave to be "intimidating" if they weren't in a group even after they have ridden that route with me 6 times.
We have enough growth in cycling, in the year-round commuters, that we do need newbie facilities, but those newbies are growing up and expanding their range into other areas. ...and we need to improve those facilities too.
Heck, three years ago, I would have been scared shitless to bike down Leary Way or bike downtown, yet now I usually take Leary for part of my daily commute because it is more convenient for me than using the trail and I'm pretty confident cycling alone in fast moving downtown traffic.
Protein Man
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:07 am
Joined: 15 May 2007Posts: 56Location: N. Seattle
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, snyd3282.
I will see about making it to some of these meetings.
I for one, would like to see the interurban connect safely to the BG. That way I could just skip the mess on Stone Way most days.
PM
n_claw
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:21 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
snyd3282 wrote:
We have enough growth in cycling, in the year-round commuters, that we do need newbie facilities, but those newbies are growing up and expanding their range into other areas. ...and we need to improve those facilities too.
Heck, three years ago, I would have been scared shitless to bike down Leary Way or bike downtown, yet now I usually take Leary for part of my daily commute because it is more convenient for me than using the trail and I'm pretty confident cycling alone in fast moving downtown traffic.
Amen. Having been a suburban/sub-urban (i.e. Everett/Monroe) cyclist for many a year and then transitioning to Seattle has been challenging for me--and over the past year I have acquired all the scars to prove it.
I think I would be far more inclined to attend these meetings if it sounded like they were actually ACCOMPLISHING something on a regular basis.
Nonetheless, do remind us the next time one comes up?
I'll try to post something on the SLB mainpage later today, tho the formatting will likely be mussed as it's a bit wonky trying to format any text--CMS made simple my ass.
It would at the very least be good to be informed about what/why is going down from SDOT's perspective, and I think it's info SLB could work with, at the very least!
-N*
snyd3282
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:19 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
I will send a reminder before the next meeting and I am starting to post notes and random links to cycling information and resources on a blog here:
I will send a reminder before the next meeting and I am starting to post notes and random links to cycling information and resources on a blog here:
http://bicycling-in-seattle.blogspot.com/
Nice job getting that setup and putting all those awesome links on there. I'm a big enough dork that I immediately went and read all the RCW codes, which so engrossed my attention as to cause my cereal to become soggy.
Reminder for you death-machine riders:
RCW Section 11.44.200 wrote:
BRAKES. Every bicycle shall be equipped with a brake which will enable the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement.
_________________ "I take it from your glum demeanor that your ill-advised foray into time-travel destroyed yet another reality."
n_claw
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:18 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
Raindog wrote:
Reminder for you death-machine riders:
RCW Section 11.44.200 wrote:
BRAKES. Every bicycle shall be equipped with a brake which will enable the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement.
On that note, skid-stopping by putting resistance on your pedals IS a brake. nonetheless, an actual front brake is smarter, because it is feasible for one's chain to snap, and for one to be 'up-shit-creek-w/o-a-paddle' as they say.
or down-oh-shit-hill without a brake.
OOK.
-N*
lantius
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:19 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
Raindog wrote:
Reminder for you death-machine riders:
RCW Section 11.44.200 wrote:
BRAKES. Every bicycle shall be equipped with a brake which will enable the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement.
... and that's why front brakes - the majority of your stopping power - aren't legally brakes. try skidding your front wheel on clean, dry pavement. i'd recommend wearing a helmet for this one. dumb law!
Drunkan
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:39 am
Joined: 09 Sep 2007Posts: 95Location: Wallingford
So who wants to try an get a board member to skid their tires using only a front brake? I have a bike they can use.
J
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:33 am
Joined: 03 Aug 2007Posts: 179Location: by that one arco am/pm
Only if we can film it, slow the resulting footage, and set it to Chariots of Fire.
_________________ god damn problem bees
the dreaded ben
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:53 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
coupdegrace wrote:
I've been to a few of these meetings and the bike death-lane lovers and the training wheels backslappers just make me want to puke!
Go if you can stomach them.
who are you?
for godfuckingsakes post a pic.
derrickito
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:53 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
snyd3282
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:59 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
the dreaded ben wrote:
coupdegrace wrote:
I've been to a few of these meetings and the bike death-lane lovers and the training wheels backslappers just make me want to puke!
Go if you can stomach them.
who are you?
for godfuckingsakes post a pic.
Have a cow already, Geeze, use your skillz on these internets.
coupdegrace => Dennis Grace (at least there is a good chance of it)
He is a former CBC ride leader, current SBC ride leader, and probably not a regular .83 rider.
coupdegrace
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:54 pm
Joined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 168
the dreaded ben wrote:
who are you?
for godfuckingsakes post a pic.
Oh for fucksake, here's a pic!
Micheal identified me correctly. I have led a weekly W.Seattle neighborhood bike ride between the vernal and autumnal equinox' since 2000. Yes I was a trainingwheels member, ride leader and educator. I left CBC because of political differences of opinion. I joined SBC because I wanted to have club liability insurance for our weekly ride and my liver wouldn't survive .83
Yah we're vehicular cycling squids. Like Aaron Goss I grew up in the Willamette Valley and began riding during the 1970's 10-speed bike boom.
Sadly once I got a car I didn't ride again until 1990. I have been riding ever since. We just got back from Italy where we rode from the right coast to the left coast - Magnifico!
the dreaded ben
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:31 pm
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
so i'll assume i don't as of yet know you...
i just figured you were one of the dudes i ride with and don't know.
sorry you'll have to excuse my overwhelming grace.
i have a problem not using colorful words.
carry on, carry on.
coupdegrace
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:26 pm
Joined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 168
the dreaded ben wrote:
so i'll assume i don't as of yet know you...
i just figured you were one of the dudes i ride with and don't know.
sorry you'll have to excuse my overwhelming grace.
i have a problem not using colorful words.
carry on, carry on.
I don't think we have met. No need to apologize for the colorful language, I like it that folks really communicate here and don't do a fucking stupid politcal correctness dance around each other so as not to offend anyone.
Sometime I'll come out and ride with you guys when I can call in sick on a Friday. My days of rolling in at 2-3 a.m. and rolling out to work at 6 a.m. are way, way, way behind me, but I do like to ride at night with a little alcoholic assistance.
What the hell this thread was about the big show once a month downtown at city hall where cyclists can go to grip to a mayor selected group of cyclists who sit on a board and report back to the mayor so he doesn't have to waste his time and actually listen. I guess I'm lucky cause if I got something I want to say to the mayor I just write it down on a piece of paper and take it over to his house and put it in his mailbox or I bend his ear at Starbucks or the market when I see him. Fat Greg is a nice enough guy but it is hard to believe all his shit about meeting the Kyoto treaty and getting people out of their cars and making Seattle a ped/bike city when he himself will not stick a bicycle seat between his cheeks and ride to work once in a while and see first hand what it is like to ride a bike in Seattle.
Being the cynic that I am I think it is all bullshit to further along Greggy's politcal career.
But if no one did anything, like me, then nothing would get done, which is exactly what I want. I do think that improvements could and should be made to all the bridges that cross the ship canal to better accomodate cyclists but confusing stripes painted all over the roads to indicate that I can ride here and you can drive there is just abunch of shit that we don't need. Folks just need to shut up quit their whining for facilites and ride their bikes on our roads and demand that motorists share our roads with us safely. Oh oh oh but we need safe places for noobys to ride. How long are noobys noobys? How long does it take to learn to ride a bike? 1, 2, 3 years? I contend that a nooby can learn all s/he needs to know about the principles of vehicular travel in a single afternoon and they can gain the confidence to use those principles effectively in 2 or 3 riding sessions with a qualified instructor. Bike lanes and seperated trails stunt the growth of a cyclists' skills. I'll shut up now because I'm out of whiskey.
mos6502
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:45 pm
Joined: 20 Sep 2007Posts: 21
Quote:
Oh oh oh but we need safe places for noobys to ride.
You mean we can't just stick a "student cyclist" sign on their backs and let them loose in traffic?
Hey, if you people continue to go, why not insist on some more "turning vehicles must yield to bicycles and pedestrians" signs. If I had the opportunity to go it's what I'd do... I don't have any statistics to back this idea up, but I think they probably do more to make motorists aware of bicycles than painted lines on the street do.
Besides if you do have a collision (if you can get up on your own) you can drag them over to the sign and ask them to read it, something you can't do with a bike lane.
snyd3282
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:32 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
mos6502 wrote:
You mean we can't just stick a "student cyclist" sign on their backs and let them loose in traffic?
Hey, if you people continue to go, why not insist on some more "turning vehicles must yield to bicycles and pedestrians" signs. If I had the opportunity to go it's what I'd do... I don't have any statistics to back this idea up, but I think they probably do more to make motorists aware of bicycles than painted lines on the street do.
Besides if you do have a collision (if you can get up on your own) you can drag them over to the sign and ask them to read it, something you can't do with a bike lane.
I do plan to continue to go and I do plan to suggest things like what you mention, though for the first while I am going to sit back and understand the dynamics of the group so that I can figure out the right way to approach it to get a positive outcome. It is really easy to walk into a meeting and start ranting. It takes more work to get people to agree with you and effect the change that you are trying to get.
DOUG.
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:10 pm
Joined: 29 Jan 2007Posts: 117Location: Wallingford
I've attended a couple of SBAB meetings and they struck me as little more than high school student council meetings where everyone shows up, gets excited and reports back all starry-eyed to the principal who thanks them, tells them to go on their way and then does whatever he damn well pleases.
Don't think for a minute that the SBAB had ANYTHING to do with the BGT through Fremont opening up "early" (since really it opened three months late). It was the 400 people who showed up to ride Stone Way, and the dozens of letters to the media and goverment officials that got the Burke opened up. Otherwise Mayor Gridlock would've kept that thing closed as long as his Madam deemed necessary.
Aaron
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:16 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
I was on the BOD of the Bicycle Alliance, an active member in Cascade, and went to every meeting of the SBAB. That was way, way, way before I knew you motherbitches. Anyway, long story short. What really matters is EDUCATION AND COOPERATION between all road users. Keep speaking about that. All rules of the road should not be equal. Like if a biker comes to a red light at 11 PM and there are NO cars, then a biker should be able to treat the red light as a blinking red. Stop signs should be considered yield signs to bikes. etc. Point is, getting everyone where they want to go, safely (read without being killed or maimed).
Oh, and take a flame thrower just incase you don't like someone. JK!
snyd3282
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:04 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
DOUG. wrote:
Don't think for a minute that the SBAB had ANYTHING to do with the BGT through Fremont opening up "early" (since really it opened three months late). It was the 400 people who showed up to ride Stone Way, and the dozens of letters to the media and goverment officials that got the Burke opened up. Otherwise Mayor Gridlock would've kept that thing closed as long as his Madam deemed necessary.
I don't think that either had anything to do with the BGT opening.
The Mayor opened his mouth and made a promise before asking SDOT about when it "really" would be open and SDOT had an engineering mistake to fix and they didn't really know how long it would take.
The 400 people got the Mayor's staff to review Suzie's agreement and got it open earlier, but the Mayor wouldn't have done that on his own and I don't know if the SBAB did anything or not about the Burke.
What I do see is that the SBAB has the ear of some folks in SDOT which is important as they try to implement the Bicycle Master Plan.
I also agree with Aaron about education and cooperation.
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