46.61.050
Failure to obey traffic control device-Bicycle
I didn't put my foot down at that sign on BGT near Uvillage that SPD is watching with binoculars from the bushes.
Has anyone got one of these bullshit tickets and successfully fought it?
Seven
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:50 am
suddenly quite whiny!Joined: 24 Aug 2007Posts: 345Location: Cap Hill
chad wrote:
46.61.050
Failure to obey traffic control device-Bicycle
I didn't put my foot down at that sign on BGT near Uvillage that SPD is watching with binoculars from the bushes.
Has anyone got one of these bullshit tickets and successfully fought it?
But did you stop? Do you need me to roll into the courtroom and demonstrate how you can stop on a bicycle without putting your foot down? That should shut 'em up.
chad
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:55 am
Joined: 02 Oct 2007Posts: 20Location: downtown
I did the I am slowing down so I don't get hit, look both ways no cars in sight kinda stop.
I seriously doubt officer A.C. Stewart's ability to differentiate types of stopping.
bobhall
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:05 am
Joined: 28 Jul 2006Posts: 460
My suggestion: wipe your ass with the ticket and mail it back to them.
Seven
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:06 am
suddenly quite whiny!Joined: 24 Aug 2007Posts: 345Location: Cap Hill
chad wrote:
I did the I am slowing down so I don't get hit, look both ways no cars in sight kinda stop.
I seriously doubt officer A.C. Stewart's ability to differentiate types of stopping.
You can totally fight that, I would think. It seems like his only argument would be that you didn't put your foot down, and I think we all know that's ridiculous.
Rogelio
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:07 am
Joined: 31 Jul 2007Posts: 3092Location: Pos, aya, por la Corona-Alta-Madera y que no.
Seven wrote:
chad wrote:
I did the I am slowing down so I don't get hit, look both ways no cars in sight kinda stop.
I seriously doubt officer A.C. Stewart's ability to differentiate types of stopping.
You can totally fight that, I would think. It seems like his only argument would be that you didn't put your foot down, and I think we all know that's ridiculous.
You could totally fight it, but then everyone would know where you live.
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langston
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:08 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 5547Location: Columbia City
eh, that's an easy one to mitigate your way out of if you have a fairly clean record.
Check the "middle" option and when you meeting the magistrate, explain the circumstances and that you were in full control and operating safely and they'll probably throw it out. Worked for me, running red lights downtown.
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:13 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
See this thread on Cascade's forums about a similar situation in Mercer Island. Search for Joshua Putnam, who got a clarification from the MI city attorney that RCW does not require a foot down, but rather 'a complete cessation of movement'.
As Einstein showed, any frame of reference is valid. From the frame of reference of your bicycle, you aren't moving, the pavement and the world around you is moving. Ergo, given the proper frame of reference, you are always stopped.
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MyNameIsJeff
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:02 pm
BOOSH!Joined: 17 Jul 2007Posts: 2042Location: Nearest bar.
What the fuck were you thinking?
You are supposed to stop, completely dismount, check that it is clear, then you can continue on.
If you can't do that then maybe you shouldn't be riding a bike with .83. Or at all.
Criminal.
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rob
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:10 pm
Joined: 28 Jul 2007Posts: 1315Location: Columbia City
gsbarnes wrote:
mork the delayer wrote:
gsbarnes wrote:
RCW does not require a foot down, but rather 'a complete cessation of movement'.
As Einstein showed, any frame of reference is valid. From the frame of reference of your bicycle, you aren't moving, the pavement and the world around you is moving. Ergo, given the proper frame of reference, you are always stopped.
"stopping" can be shown thusly:
if you roll to a stop and track stand backwards slightly, your velocity has changed sign from positive to negative. since your velocity is a continuous variable the intermediate value theorem sez it had to be zero at some point. qed, bitches.
there are of course all sorts of catches, but all those apply to cars as well.
Eric_s
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:36 pm
Joined: 07 Mar 2007Posts: 1691Location: the dirty south
I wonder if you'd get a ticket for leaping off, cross style, shoulder your bike as you run across the crosswalk, and on the other side leap back on and pedal off.
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gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:40 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
Eric_s wrote:
I wonder if you'd get a ticket for leaping off, cross style, shoulder your bike as you run across the crosswalk, and on the other side leap back on and pedal off.
See, that's a good point. Bikes in crosswalks get all the privileges of pedestrians. Pedestrians don't have to stop at stop signs.
I really don't know what a stop sign positioned before a crosswalk means if you're on a bike.
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DOUG.
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:45 am
Joined: 29 Jan 2007Posts: 117Location: Wallingford
Ditto those last two posts. I've run that sign many times when there were pedestrians in the crosswalk. Cars are, of course, required by law to stop for them. The notion that I would stop for the cars, who were stopped for the peds, is ridiculous. Those signs are simply absurd. Fight the ticket!!!
Remington
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:14 pm
Joined: 23 Jan 2006Posts: 457Location: Remington Country
gsbarnes wrote:
See, that's a good point. Bikes in crosswalks get all the privileges of pedestrians. Pedestrians don't have to stop at stop signs.
I really don't know what a stop sign positioned before a crosswalk means if you're on a bike.
Haven't people been killed, or at least seriously hurt by cars at some of those road/trail intersections? The stop sign is there for a reason, even if you only to take as it warning to pay attention. Bikes are faster than peds, so cars have less time to notice them coming out of the bushes on the trail. Sometimes when I drive across the BGT onto the UW campus, I almost forget it is there.
I'm with Henry on this one. Sure, maybe bikes Can safely blow past stop signs/lights if it's clear. Hell, if it's Really clear, cars could too. But how the hell would you like the law to read? The simplest way to enforce traffic laws is to have everyone follow the same simple rules. Stop at stop signs, stop at red lights, etc. Yellow lights, if I remember correctly require people to "stop if it is safe to do so," leaving it to people's subjective judgment of "safe", and you know how that works with some drivers... and it wouldn't be much better with some cyclists either.
Of course, foot down definition of a stop Is rather lame.
gsbarnes
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
Remington wrote:
gsbarnes wrote:
See, that's a good point. Bikes in crosswalks get all the privileges of pedestrians. Pedestrians don't have to stop at stop signs.
I really don't know what a stop sign positioned before a crosswalk means if you're on a bike.
Haven't people been killed, or at least seriously hurt by cars at some of those road/trail intersections? The stop sign is there for a reason, even if you only to take as it warning to pay attention. Bikes are faster than peds, so cars have less time to notice them coming out of the bushes on the trail. Sometimes when I drive across the BGT onto the UW campus, I almost forget it is there.
I'm with Henry on this one. Sure, maybe bikes Can safely blow past stop signs/lights if it's clear. Hell, if it's Really clear, cars could too. But how the hell would you like the law to read? The simplest way to enforce traffic laws is to have everyone follow the same simple rules. Stop at stop signs, stop at red lights, etc. Yellow lights, if I remember correctly require people to "stop if it is safe to do so," leaving it to people's subjective judgment of "safe", and you know how that works with some drivers... and it wouldn't be much better with some cyclists either.
Of course, foot down definition of a stop Is rather lame.
Bike or ped, the law is you are not allowed to enter a crosswalk if a vehicle would not have time to stop for you.
I'm aware of what the law is in most cases. But a stop sign before a crosswalk makes no sense to me. If you have a stop sign, and cross traffic does not, you must yield to cross traffic. Does that mean bikes and pedestrians must yield to cross traffic at trail crossings with stop signs? I'm pretty sure not. The stop sign contradicts the crosswalk, which says cross traffic must yield (subject to the 'reaction time' caveat I mentioned above). I don't know what it means, legally.
If they want people to watch out, then maybe they should have a yellow sign. But they should not use an existing traffic control that already has a specific, different meaning.
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I wonder if you'd get a ticket for leaping off, cross style, shoulder your bike as you run across the crosswalk, and on the other side leap back on and pedal off.
Yes.
Also, yes, I am speaking from experience here. I did this in DC near The Mall, where all bicycles must come to a complete stop and walk through the anti-car bomb concrete barriers.
Good news: National Park Service rarely defends contested tickets in court since they don't have the resources.
kav
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:45 am
Joined: 15 Oct 2007Posts: 43Location: Eastlake
Matthew wrote:
Eric_s wrote:
I wonder if you'd get a ticket for leaping off, cross style, shoulder your bike as you run across the crosswalk, and on the other side leap back on and pedal off.
Yes.
Also, yes, I am speaking from experience here. I did this in DC near The Mall, where all bicycles must come to a complete stop and walk through the anti-car bomb concrete barriers.
Good news: National Park Service rarely defends contested tickets in court since they don't have the resources.
When I tried to ride through those they usually just stood in front of me and told me if I didn't stop they'd be forced to shoot me. Guess they figured out how to avoid wasting time in court.
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