could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
I will be asking SDOT that very question at the Bicycle Advisory Board meeting on Wednesday. If you have the time, 6-8pm (need to be a bit early), it should be an interesting one. Multiple top tier people are going to be there to talk about the chastisement that they got from the advisory board about the SLUT & Westlake not being a "Complete Street".
The agenda is pretty full, so there won't be a lot of time for questions, but they should still take 5 minutes at the start or end of the meeting for guest questions or statements.
TrikerTrev
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:55 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
hey, do me a favor will ya?
when the numbers are finally reported (expect them to be on the lowside for bikes), please challenge those numbers due to the simple friggen fact that they...
DID THEIR BIKE COUNTING DURING THE WINTER MONTHS!!!
idiots
what DOT genius thought they'd get an accurate assessment on how bikes use Stone by counting in the winter?!? The auto & SUV numbers will be inflated due to the fact that more people will not use alt transportation when its shitty and dark out.
well, at least shitty...
call em out for being douchbags, cause pulling that shit is nothing short of douchbaggery.
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
snyd3282
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:35 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
...and yet, on a couple of the Cascade counts that I was on we found that 10% of the northbound evening traffic was bicycles...more than trucks.
Trev, I will mention it, but the primary focus of the count was to show that SDOT's 1000% traffic increase prediction forecast from 2000 to 2010 is bogus, and I am sure that it did that. Anything they discovered about bikes is great, but that wasn't the point of the count.
The concern I have is if they decide to pull some other monkey wrench out (like saying that traffic is backed up too far, too often, northbound at Stone and 45th and due to that they need to remove bike lanes). Except for something out of left field like that, from the commitments that they made and the numbers we saw, they have to re-do that lower section.
laura
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:37 pm
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
NEWS!
The pitbull left a message earlier today and wanted to relay to everyone that SDOT will be releasing a press release tomorrow about this.
We get the uphill climbing lane, downhill sharrows. :D
May I suggest that SeattleLikesBikes get a nice little "kick ass, we did it" banner for the new website?
Good work everyone!!!!
derrickito
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:42 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
i got the same phone call from the pitbull (im assuming that's his nickname?) in dc... apparently the bottom lanes will be changed to accomodate 3 lanes of car traffic and 2 lanes of bike traffic.
good fucking job people. everything that we did last summer was a success.
i was coked out of my mind for most of it too!
TrikerTrev
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:43 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
bitchin!
...so whats our next target?
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
snyd3282
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:47 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
Seattle Likes Bikes is now a wordpress...register and if we know you, you too can have story posting privs.
As soon as I see the press release, unless someone beats me to it, I'll write up a story and post it.
[edit] I put up a brief reminder of the 6 month study as a prelude to the annoucement. If anyone with admin privs thinks it needs revision, feel free to do so.
DOUG.
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:15 am
Joined: 29 Jan 2007Posts: 117Location: Wallingford
Sweet victory! And we didn't even have to set fire to anything.
jeff
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:21 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
Is it true that activism causes herpes? Could have somethign to do with geared bikes, can't be sure.
I swear I heard that somewhere.
MyNameIsJeff
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:29 am
BOOSH!Joined: 17 Jul 2007Posts: 2042Location: Nearest bar.
TrikerTrev wrote:
bitchin!
...so whats our next target?
The Lobster Liberation Front!
They are not beautiful intelligent creatures! They are stupid, ugly, and delicious!
Eric_s
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:33 am
Joined: 07 Mar 2007Posts: 1691Location: the dirty south
TrikerTrev wrote:
bitchin!
...so whats our next target?
I don't like the word "target". I don't want to kill anything. I just wanna ride bikes, man...
Where is there a massive gap in the infrastructure? 9th avenue? the "lane of death" on 2nd ave? the sketchy uphill climb to cross the unversity bridge? The WTF light as you get off the lower bridge in west seattle and try to use the bike path? California Avenue? Avalon Way? Airport way? Anything worth fighting over?
_________________ That's Lemmy, Not Jesus.
dennyt
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:06 am
rocket mechanicJoined: 02 Aug 2005Posts: 2708
Southbound ballard bridge to 15th curb cut.
snyd3282
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:16 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
BTW - The agenda for the SBAB meeting tonight includes a SDOT presentation on 2nd ave and 4th ave bike lanes.
We've been wanting to have a beer & advocacy SLB planning meeting sometime soon, but it just hasn't happened yet.
A personal project of mine is dead street lights. I submitted 50 of them to Seattle City Light last week. Most of 15th Ave between Elliott and the Ballard Bridge are out.
I dropped the ball on the "do you know bike/ped laws" survey / education advocacy project.
Ghostcycles is still broken (due to the google maps api change?).
A streetcars vs. bikes meeting with SDOT and Portland DOT is coming up soon.
Word is that a lot of people with property next to the BGT and SRT have put up fences (and even a garage) on public property. We could do a mapping / marking / public shaming activity on that.
I'm sure there are more...
ksep
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:30 am
Joined: 27 Jan 2007Posts: 1879Location: Westlake
I'm pulling for a fun ride.
Maybe call attention to expanding Seattle's Lake Washington Blvd version of Ciclovia. Could be as easy as getting the city to put a counter out and getting a ton of people to ride past.
Wouldn't it be sweet if the I-5 express lanes were bike only on the weekend? Would make it easy to bike to major retail. Maybe get Nordstrom behind a "ride in and get 20% off Burberry" or something.
_________________ -Kevin
derrickito
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:57 am
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
snyd3282 wrote:
Ghostcycles is still broken (due to the google maps api change?).
we did the ghostcycle project in 2005 and havent been updating it since. no plans to fix it as of right now.
i could put some hot porn on it though.
Eric_s
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:57 am
Joined: 07 Mar 2007Posts: 1691Location: the dirty south
abamfici wrote:
Maybe get Nordstrom behind a "ride in and get 20% off Burberry" or something.
Everyone knows that Burberry people drive SUVs they can't afford. I bet Nordy's would sell exactly none. Maybe REI is a better mega retailer to support that one.
_________________ That's Lemmy, Not Jesus.
Razi
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:11 am
Joined: 16 Dec 2005Posts: 866Location: Seattle
Merge from 40th to U-bridge southbound is a "yield" right now. Should be a stop sign.
2nd ave lane of death is pretty bad. 2nd is fast enough that I just take the center lane and crank.
The old train tracks where fairview meets valley in SLU is a real mess too. Come to think of it, Fairview in general is a real mess. If there were bike-only signals that could allow cyclists to safely get in front of traffic when going down fairview all the way past Mercer and Valley that would be amazing.
Fairview is really a pretty decent way out of downtown once you pass Denny. But needing to cross from right lane to left lane back to right lane to continue going north once you hit valley is really dangerous. Lots of right hooks and careless merging from I-5N happening there.
Merge from 40th to U-bridge southbound is a "yield" right now. Should be a stop sign.
2nd ave lane of death is pretty bad. 2nd is fast enough that I just take the center lane and crank.
The old train tracks where fairview meets valley in SLU is a real mess too. Come to think of it, Fairview in general is a real mess. If there were bike-only signals that could allow cyclists to safely get in front of traffic when going down fairview all the way past Mercer and Valley that would be amazing.
Fairview is really a pretty decent way out of downtown once you pass Denny. But needing to cross from right lane to left lane back to right lane to continue going north once you hit valley is really dangerous. Lots of right hooks and careless merging from I-5N happening there.
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
michael,
I've been looking through the MUTCD (manual on uniform traffic control devices) trying to find something, anything, on Sharrow information signs for drivers. Bottom line seems to be that since the last edition on '03, they have not devised anything educating drivers on what the marker in the road is, besides combining the "share the road" and the standard bicycle warning sign.
Can we convince them to adhere to these guidelines? Anything to help drivers acknowledge the legality of bikes riding in "their" lane.
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
snyd3282
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:28 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
I am pretty sure that the MUTCD (even if it has been revised since '03) doesn't have anything on Sharrows. They have been experimented with in a few places in Portland and (if I remember correctly) San Francisco...but Seattle has the first large scale deployment of Sharrows and it is new enough that a university (NC I think) is doing a study on a few of our roads before and after the sharrows go down to see what the effect is on cyclists and cars.
Essentially we are in the middle of a big experiment that was specified in the Bicycle Master Plan. The BMP is up for re-evaluation in 4 years.
If we could do bicycle lanes everywhere in Seattle, we would, but the official line is that "we have many odd sized streets" and "unlike portland, we don't have room for bike lanes on all of our streets" so if we can fit a bike lane, we add a bike lane and if we can't fit bike lanes on both sides we do one bike lane and one sharrow, and if we can't fit that, we do two sharrows.
...just look at how many roads we have that are only wide enough for one car and you often end up pulling into a driveway to let the other guy pass, or backing up to the nearest roundabout.
That said, I suspect that there might be an unstated agenda here to get enough experience with sharrows to be able to argue for the inclusion of sharrows in the MUTCD.
I don't fully agree with the guidelines for sharrows. I think they need to take average traffic speed and road grade into account too.
derrickito
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:54 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
i find that zipping along at 25 mph on my P83 Huffalicious makes all these ridiculous problems just melt away.
lantius
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:30 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
derrickito wrote:
i find that zipping along at 25 mph on my P83 Huffalicious makes all these ridiculous problems just melt away.
so just how flammable is that thing, anyhow? smoking & riding a lawnmower = problems?
gsbarnes
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:48 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
lantius wrote:
derrickito wrote:
i find that zipping along at 25 mph on my P83 Huffalicious makes all these ridiculous problems just melt away.
so just how flammable is that thing, anyhow? smoking & riding a lawnmower = problems?
You can't ride it with open-toed shoes, or up and down hills.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
joby
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:11 pm
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
And yeah, Joby, I think I asked the can haz bikepath option too, and maybe it could happen in a few years, but it isn't happening this year.
Hmm. Maybe if there was some sort of bicycle advocacy type pressure group that timeline could get adjusted.
TrikerTrev
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:15 pm
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
mcrawfor
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:24 pm
Joined: 09 May 2006Posts: 1039Location: Ballard
Hey, activist types:
It seems to me like closing the loop and sending a flood of "Thank you" and "good job guys" emails to the right people would help our case in future causes.
Can someone post the appropriate addresses? Perhaps we could put a "Tell them thanks" item on the Seattle likes bikes site?
Hm, looks like the Seattle likes bikes site is down right now actually.
_________________ -miles
joby
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:36 pm
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
mcrawfor wrote:
Hey, activist types:
It seems to me like closing the loop and sending a flood of "Thank you" and "good job guys" emails to the right people would help our case in future causes.
Can someone post the appropriate addresses? Perhaps we could put a "Tell them thanks" item on the Seattle likes bikes site?
Hm, looks like the Seattle likes bikes site is down right now actually.
All my dreamhost domains seem to be down right now. I suspect the HTTP server for my account is down. I'll bug support if it's not back in an hour or so.
DJStroky
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:30 pm
Joined: 25 May 2007Posts: 356Location: Downtown Tacoma
SDOT: Thank You!!!
Snyder and Trevor: I have this cool new book about "Road Dieting" which is similar to complete streets, but it has a ton of cool detailed information about how to reduce street sizes and why you should, etc, etc... I'm certain it has provisions for adding bike facilities too. Also I think it is certified by the Institute of Transportation Engineers, so it's a legit source of info. I don't think I'll make it to Thursday's ride, but maybe I can hand it off to someone else on the campus tomorrow?
Kat: I noticed in your route that you must use some physics lab tunnels or something. Nice!
_________________ Tacoma isn't that bad... well maybe it is
Razi
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:27 pm
Joined: 16 Dec 2005Posts: 866Location: Seattle
mcrawfor wrote:
Hey, activist types:
It seems to me like closing the loop and sending a flood of "Thank you" and "good job guys" emails to the right people would help our case in future causes.
Can someone post the appropriate addresses? Perhaps we could put a "Tell them thanks" item on the Seattle likes bikes site?
Hm, looks like the Seattle likes bikes site is down right now actually.
This is a really REALLY good idea. I wonder if there is a way to have volunteers hang out at a "thank you" station some nice day and allow commuters to sign a collective thank you themselves.
Joined: 20 Mar 2007Posts: 206Location: all dressed in yella
mcrawfor wrote:
Hey, activist types:
It seems to me like closing the loop and sending a flood of "Thank you" and "good job guys" emails to the right people would help our case in future causes.
Can someone post the appropriate addresses? Perhaps we could put a "Tell them thanks" item on the Seattle likes bikes site?
Seconded. Also, SLB should release a communication to the mailing list, both to inform people of this success, thank them for their good work, and to tell them an easy way to thank key people, e.g., Mayor, SDOT.
So, Nova? Who has the mailing list? Let me know if I can help.
snyd3282
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:36 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
SLB - Nova has the mailing list, but she has been swamped lately. I think we'd better have something ready for print before we ask her to send something. Who wants to do some wordsmithing?
I'll round up a list of people to thank and post information here and on SLB before tomorrow night.
DJStrokey, can you share the title & ISBN of that book? If it is that good and doesn't cost $300, I wouldn't mind buying a copy.
When we write thank you letters, it might not hurt to include a "we didn't want to be a pain in your ass, we just didn't know how to get the right thing to happen, is there a way we can be nicer about this next time?" type message in the thank you.
And if we do any press releases, I'm not convinced that we should, I'd play it as "SDOT did good engineering here, they studied the issue and found that their initially planned design was still right. This isn't them bending to the pressure of the bicycling community or ignoring the business community, this is just them pausing to study concerns and implementing a well planned design." or something along those lines. Otherwise, Suzie Burke and the local businesses are going to be a royal pain in the ass for SDOT for a long time.
joby
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:02 am
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
snyd3282 wrote:
SLB - Nova has the mailing list, but she has been swamped lately. I think we'd better have something ready for print before we ask her to send something. Who wants to do some wordsmithing?
I'll round up a list of people to thank and post information here and on SLB before tomorrow night.
DJStrokey, can you share the title & ISBN of that book? If it is that good and doesn't cost $300, I wouldn't mind buying a copy.
When we write thank you letters, it might not hurt to include a "we didn't want to be a pain in your ass, we just didn't know how to get the right thing to happen, is there a way we can be nicer about this next time?" type message in the thank you.
And if we do any press releases, I'm not convinced that we should, I'd play it as "SDOT did good engineering here, they studied the issue and found that their initially planned design was still right. This isn't them bending to the pressure of the bicycling community or ignoring the business community, this is just them pausing to study concerns and implementing a well planned design." or something along those lines. Otherwise, Suzie Burke and the local businesses are going to be a royal pain in the ass for SDOT for a long time.
A way we can be nicer next time? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not going to be nicer next time.
SLB's whole benefit was that it caused trouble and made noise.
We've already got Cascade. We don't need two of them.
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:25 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
joby wrote:
We've already got Cascade. We don't need two of them.
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
So, with Stone Way and with Westlake, we started out with letters to elected officials and SDOT...letters that we either didn't get a response to or got a form letter that stated their policy that we disagreed with.
What if we could have a city council member and a couple SDOT directors show up at our next protest ride to directly see who is concerned and hear the concerns?
What if we could have been brought into the loop earlier and could have had 400 cyclists pack Daly Paint where and when the Stone Way busineses were having their meetings?
What if we could have avoided this "6 month" study that took 8 months?
That is what I was trying to get at with the "be nicer" comment. I'm not saying that we change what we are doing, I'm saying lets see if we can get a line of communication opened earlier. Protest rides are fun, I think we should keep doing them.
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:45 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
joby wrote:
A way we can be nicer next time? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not going to be nicer next time.
SLB's whole benefit was that it caused trouble and made noise.
We've already got Cascade. We don't need two of them.
again...seconded!
I see LOTF's point on being all PC an shit, but being PC isn't what got sleezy Suzie and the SDOT off their collective arses.
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
n_claw
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:12 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2007Posts: 517Location: the only hill: Beacon
mcrawfor wrote:
Hey, activist types:
It seems to me like closing the loop and sending a flood of "Thank you" and "good job guys" emails to the right people would help our case in future causes.
Can someone post the appropriate addresses? Perhaps we could put a "Tell them thanks" item on the Seattle likes bikes site?
Hm, looks like the Seattle likes bikes site is down right now actually.
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could suck the fun out of a blowjob
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now with 50 percent more EVIL
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BOOSH!
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rocket mechanic
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goes to eleven
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sorry, can't make it!
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