where inside of REI is this meeting?
i plan on dorkpeding there

Please let us know next time if the thing you're inviting us to is a cascade meeting.

This is still so much of a political hot potato that nobody wants to talk to cyclists. They thought this was going to be an ambush.

as much as I want any future trolleys to be well built and roughts well designed, there is significantly more risk to the passengers of trolleys if it runs in the middle of the road/left lane. Think; You want on the trolley to go from your overpaid webgeek job to lunch. To get on the trolley you have to cross at least one, maybe two lanes of traffic to get to the station/stop. That's just not tenable.

Think lawsuits for noob cyclists eating shit are going to be expensive? Wait until a mom & daughter get hit by an SUV trying to jaywalk to catch their trolley. I hope people can keep user-needs in prospective beyond the end of their nose.

what this all goes to show is is that if you're traveling through an urban environment, you've just got to have adequate life insurance.

The trams in many European cities (Zurich, Basel, Munich, Hanover, Zagreb, Rome, Oslo, Budapest, Barceona etc.) are beloved by their cities and do an amazing job of moving people around.

The center island stop on Fairview (right in front of my workplace) seems pretty safe, with railings, crosswalks, traffic lights. I cross there every day and I don't see a problem. It probably also serves to calm traffic a bit since it narrows the road.

i have found that motorists don't like to drive on the tracks either, which seems pretty amusing.

This is what Portland produced regarding bicyclists and streetcars:
(I have this in MS Word format - PM me with your email address if you want a copy.)

Bicycles & Streetcars
An Outline for inclusion the Transit Chapter of the
Bicycle Master Plan Existing Conditions Report

There are two important issues to consider with bicycle operation in the vicinity of streetcar: track crossing angle and platforms. Track crossing angles must be considered both between and at intersections, both with and without a bicycle lane. After first considering potential points of conflict and hazard, this outline discusses desired designs and mitigations.

1) Points of Conflict & Hazard
a) Track Crossing Angle
i) Between Intersections
(1) Without Bicycle Lane on one-way streets
(a) This is currently the situation on:
(i) 10th and 11th Avenues between Northrup & PSU (Market & Mill)
(ii) Market & Mill between 10th & 5th
(iii) Other short segments in the University District
(b) Cyclist tendency is to stay right in roadway, regardless of number of travel lanes.
(i) Bicycles on the right is the traditional and normal place for cyclists to be.
(ii) There is benefit to cyclists staying right
1. Because it is a normal behavior, it is where motorists are accustomed to looking for cyclists
2. There is a strong expectation on the part of all road users that cyclists will be to the right of a roadway.
3. Bicyclists as a “slower-moving vehicle” will be passed by motorists overtaking on the left. “Passing on the left” is also a traditional and normal way for faster moving vehicles to pass slower moving ones.
(c) This “tendency” is also supported by Oregon State Law, which requires cyclists to stay to right.
(i) The law allows cyclists to stay left on one-way streets with multiple lanes.
(ii) However, the law is not clear about whether cyclists may position themselves in center lanes when there are more than two travel lanes on one-way streets.
(d) The norm of cyclists staying right, when combined with the law, creates a strong preference for cyclists to stay to the right travel lane when riding.
(e) Streetcar tracks in the right travel lane violates that social understanding of where cyclists typically position themselves in the roadway.
(f) Right-running streetcar in the absence of bicycle lanes on the roadway necessarily forces cyclists away from the right travel lane.
(i) A bicycle lane allows cyclists to stay to the right of the tracks.
(ii) The absence of a bicycle lane means there is no dedicated space in the right travel lane for cyclists.
1. Cyclists therefore risk crashing if they ride the trackway between the rails as they will necessarily have to cross the rails at a shallow angle when either:
a. Executing an avoidance maneuver
b. Moving in and out of the trackway to execute turning movements
2. To avoid the trackway, cyclists will move to the left travel lane(s). This places them in a less comfortable position then on the right (for the above reasons). This is uncomfortable not for just the cyclist, but for all roadway users as it violates expectations about proper roadway positioning.
(2) Without Bicycle Lanes on Two-Way Streets
(a) Right-running streetcar
(i) This is currently the situation on:
1. NW Northrup between 10th & 23rd,
2. NW 23rd between Northrup & Lovejoy, and
3. NW Lovejoy between 23rd & 14th
(ii) These street segments are perilous for cyclists.
1. PDOT has anecdotal and written information about many injury crashes occurring because of cyclists getting a wheel caught in the flangeway.
(b) Center-running streetcar
(i) This is currently the situation on:
1. SW Harrison & River Parkway between 4th & SW Moody
2. SW Moody between River Parkway & Sheridan
(ii) With this configuration there is no conflict with the trackway between intersection
(3) With Bicycle Lanes
(a) A bicycle lane stays to the right of right-running streetcar tracks.
(i) This is a dedicated space on the roadway, and as long as the cyclist is in the bikelane, there is no conflict between the cyclist and the tracks.
(ii) Conflicts and hazards develop when a cyclist needs to go left out of the bicycle lane, as when preparing to execute a left turn, or when going to a destination along the left side of a roadway.
1. This type of hazard will be especially pronounced along the proposed streetcar line that will run westbound on NW Lovejoy east of 9th Avenue. Cyclists wishing to turn left will have to merge from the bicycle lane at high speeds, in high volumes of automotive traffic, and cross the streetcar tracks at an acute angle to access the left turn lane.
ii) At Intersections
(1) Because streetcars make a gradual, large-radius turn, cyclists continuing straight or turning right (or left) with the tracks across right- (or left-) turning tracks will be subjected to an acute crossing angle
(a) This currently occurs at several locations:
(i) NW Lovejoy at 11th
1. Effectively addressed by “wow” in roadway
(ii) NW 10th at Northrup
(iii) NW Northrup at 23rd
(iv) NW 25rd at Lovejoy
(v) SW 11th at Market
(Microsoft Word, part of the Microsoft Office Suite) SW Mill at 10th
(vii) SW 5th at Montgomery
(viii) SW Moody at Sheridan
1. Effectively addressed by “wow in roadway
(ix) SW Moody at Bancroft
(x) SW Bancroft at Bond
(b) The “wow”s in the roadway at Lovejoy and 11th and at Moody and Sheridan work well with just one primary concern:
(i) The “wow” at Lovejoy and 11th takes cyclists a bit away from the roadway in a manner that a following motorist may interpret as the beginning of executing a right turn
b) Platforms
i) There are not conflicts between cyclists and either center, or left-side platforms
ii) Right-running streetcar combined with bicycle lanes creates a conflict point at streetcar platforms.
(1) The conflict arises from the platform occupying the space otherwise being used for a bicycle lane. There are two such locations in Portland and the city has addressed it with two different designs.
(a) Bicycle lane on the streetcar platform.
(i) This avoids the conflict with the streetcar tracks and platform, but introduces other potential conflicts:
1. The current example we have of this is eastbound on NW Lovejoy between 13th & 14th. A bicycle lane on the platform reads more as a pedestrian way with cyclists invited to share the space.
2. Cyclists reenter the roadway at the intersection with 13th Avenue. Because they come out in to the roadway from the platform and from behind the shelter, they are not as visible to motorists traveling eastbound on Lovejoy. This creates a potential conflict between through cyclists and right-turning motorists.
3. If the streetcar platform is busy with pedestrians and streetcar riders there is the opportunity for conflict between pedestrians and cyclists in large measure because
a. The platform reads primarily as a pedestrian environment
b. The bicycle lane markings are easily and understandably overlooked or ignored by pedestrians and transit riders
(ii) This design may work only in areas where pedestrian activity and streetcar boardings are low, which is not likely to be the situation long-term along streetcar corridors.
(b) Bicycle lane between the streetcar platform and the sidewalk.
(i) In this design, there is not a continuous surface between sidewalk and platform
(ii) Instead, the bicycle lane continues between the platform and the sidewalk.
(iii) This seems a better design for reducing conflict between pedestrians and bicyclists because the bicycle area reads like “roadway” and pedestrians will presumably look before crossing this area.
1. Crossings are also controlled by fencing to occur at the end of the platform, further reducing potential points of conflict
(iv) Maintenance Issues: Because sweepers cannot get into this area:
1. There must be a maintenance agreement with an entity other than PDOT in order to ensure that the bicycle facility is clear of debris, etc.
2. It must be maintained to a high level of service because cyclists do not have the ability to avoid debris, broken glass, etc in the facility
2) Desired Designs & Mitigations
a) Left- or Center-running streetcars eliminate many of the above-mentioned problems. That should be the standard with right-running streetcar the exception.
b) Between Intersections without a bicycle lane
i) Left-running streetcars
(1) This eliminates the need for cyclists to stay out of the right travel lane
(2) This eliminates placing cyclists in proximity to streetcar tracks when they do ride in the right travel lane
(3) Still creates potential for crashes for cyclists merging to the left travel lane to execute a left turn
(a) This can be addressed with separate signal phase for cyclists, as will be discussed below.
(4) This design has been implemented on SW Bond Avenue in South Waterfront and is proposed for the portion of the streetcar that will be running on the Broadway-Weidler corridor.
ii) Center-running streetcar
(1) This is a good design for a two-way roadway.
(a) There is currently one center-running streetcar on SW Harrison Street and another proposed for NE 7th Avenue in the Lloyd District.
iii) Exclusive center streetcar lane
(1) A design popular in European cities. The center-running streetcar lane is not used for private passenger vehicles, but is shared with public vehicles (i.e., police and other service providers) and taxis, buses, etc.
c) Between intersections with a bicycle lane
i) Left-running streetcars
(1) The potential conflict at platforms is eliminated with a left-running streetcar.
(2) The conflict of cyclists merging across tracks when changing lanes to make a left turn still remains, but is not as difficult as cyclists have more opportunity to set up to cross the tracks at more than an acute angle.
ii) Center-running streetcar.
(1) This places the platforms in the middle of the roadway, also eliminating the conflicts that arise with right-running streetcar platforms.
d) At Intersections
i) Much thought must be given to creating good crossing angles for cyclists and streetcar when streetcar turns at an intersection. There are several things to consider:
(1) Track crossing angle
(2) Maintaining cyclist presence so they do not disappear from the view of motorists
(3) Maneuvering cyclists must make to merge across streetcar tracks.
(a) This design challenge is coming to a head westbound at Lovejoy & 9th Avenue.
(i) Here, right-running streetcar presents a hazard to cyclists in the eastbound bicycle lane who wish to merge left to the left turn lane and continue south on 9th Avenue.
(ii) This is compounded by high volumes of traffic and that the roadway is downhill.
(iii) These factors combine to create a situation where cyclists may have little time to pick a gap in traffic and may be moving too fast to easily negotiate a good angled crossing.
1. One suggested treatment here is to bring cyclists to the right side of the roadway on a curb extension and then cross them left with a dedicated signal phase, similar to the scramble signal at the Rose Quarter for the Eastbank Esplanade
a. This phase could work in conjunction with the westbound left turn, as long as there was a separate receiving lane for cyclists.
ii) Such issues should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis for the best and safest treatment for cyclists.
e) Platforms
i) Design for bicycle facilities at streetcar platforms comes into play with right-running streetcars.
ii) The design currently in place on SW Moody at Gibbs (?) seems much better than the design at Lovejoy and 13th, for above-mentioned reasons.

-drivers need some re-education about cyclists:
-the only way to get drivers to expect us is to a) have signs b) encourage people to ride that route.

Cascade is afraid of pushing for sharrows. They worry that trying to put a band-aid on a broken road may actually make it worse. I think that's plausible. Maybe a newbie riding between the tracks is better than a newbie making a sharp right turn across a train track lane they _think_ is empty.

If we could dig up some data /studies on what needs to be done to fix Westlake, short of ripping up the tracks, they might be able to run with it. Know of any major cities with train tracks in the right curb lane and sharrows in the left lane?

-drivers need some re-education about cyclists: it's legal for us to be in the LH lane on Westlake, and yes, you should be expecting us.
-the only way to get drivers to expect us is to a) have signs

fuck the city for not taking ALL the users of the road into account for safety, rather than just the user who has his finger on their prostate. seriously, fuck that guy. and not in a hot, slow and tasty-riffic way.

All this bullshit is totally gay.

STFU&R (the bus, in my case).

Who are you? Do you ride bikes with us?