I'd like to point out a few underlying issues here; the first being the continued brainwashing of our youth that the only way to get around in our society is via automobile, enforcing the notion that only the underclassed commute by bike, and compound the situation by the removal of busing for students!?! For fucks sake, i'm going to help teach grade schoolers biking safety and I read this shit? WTF are the districts priorities?!?
I know that this doesn't effect 99.9% of y'all...but consider this for a moment; How many of you rode your bikes to school as kids? How many of you did this in jr. or high school? Now consider for a moment your institutes of higher education not providing you a place to secure your bike daily? Or a safe place to do that (thinking about locking my bike to a chainlink fence in the back parking lot...yeah, i'd not be into that!)?
Now for you breeders; consider that this is the world your kids may be subjected to! WTF is the message that is being reinforced here? Only the rich kids get a place to park, while the rest of us huddle together in the rain waiting for the Metro? I can't ride to school cause there's no place provided for me to park safely? How much money did the district pour into parking lots that it could save by providing some damn bike racks by the front office?...fucking retards.
This kind of closed mentality really gets under my skin, sorry.
...and the first soundoff comment (i know, i know, the skidmarks of society comment there) really pisses me off.
Maybe this is a good item for SLB to address, SLB's been pretty quiet lately. Anybody?
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
Stanglor
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:04 am
Joined: 28 Jan 2006Posts: 555Location: Wallingford
That is annoying. My little brother commutes to Garfield right now (while it's in Wallingford). He's graduating this year so he won't get a chance to use the new building no matter what, but annoying none the less.
_________________ Confidential to everybody: "Pearl necklace" is out. "Cheney" is in. Pass it on.
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:24 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
now, consider him if he were in jr high and would be using the new building in the future? he'd be shit outta luck!
he'd have to get a car, take a metro, or risk having his bike jacked...and that's ridiculous!
oh, and did I forget to mention in my rant that kids are getting their licenses LATER these days? The schools are not providing drivers ed like they used to. ...and we're facing a recession that will make it even more difficult to get, insure, and fuel a car.
jezus on toast, i'm amazed that the school district is so shortsighted!
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
snyd3282
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:50 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
That is like the school my sisters kids go to outside of San Diego...it is a dangerous mob of SUVs and minivans dropping off kids every morning and picking them up every afternoon.
The entire block is horribly congested just because of this school.
Contrast that with the schools I grew up with in small-rural-town Idaho where I bicycled to school every day until school was more than 5 miles away...and I should have still biked then, but at that time I bought into the car mentality because the things I wanted to do required a much larger travel radius.
If rural Idaho can provide bike racks, progressive Seattle should at least be able to do that too.
Chris
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:02 am
Joined: 18 Aug 2007Posts: 222Location: Seattle (Downtown)
How much do bike racks cost? Would it be possible to set up a community-funded effort to provide the school with bike racks? I would be willing to contribute, and I'm sure that many other bicycle commuters, activists, and parents would, too.
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:03 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
Hey, Lord of the Frys?
You should flex your substantial muscle and push this at Ka$Kade too.
Seriously, this should rile up at least one of two pedal pushers there.
What good was all that work pushing for bike lanes and crap if the kids are being brainwashed away from biking? What's the fucking point (besides the selfish need to ride drunk in our own lane)?
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
the dreaded ben
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:05 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
duly commented....
zomg! cars!
laura
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:23 am
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
I sent an email to Mr. Richard who wrote the editorial to see how those who are interested can help support the existing Garfield YMCA Earth Service Corps group there. Don't want to steal their thunder, but offer some SLB muscle/mouth.
It's pretty darn stupid, this whole thing.
Covered bike racks are haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard.
jeff
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:27 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
As long as we are on the topic of activisim, we should organize some kind of activist ride. I'm thinking one that starts at 7 p.m. on Thursdays from westlake center. Also, drinking should be involved as well as a moderate amount of safety.
Anyone else think this is a good idea?
snyd3282
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:40 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
TrikerTrev wrote:
Hey, Lord of the Frys?
You should flex your substantial muscle and push this at Ka$Kade too.
Noted. Working on it.
zuvembi
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:42 am
Joined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 942Location: Little Addis Ababa
Chris wrote:
How much do bike racks cost? Would it be possible to set up a community-funded effort to provide the school with bike racks? I would be willing to contribute, and I'm sure that many other bicycle commuters, activists, and parents would, too.
I'd be happy to throw in some money myself. But really, the more important part is getting the school district to admit they need them in the first place.
It should boggle my mind that this sort of shit happens at the schools. But it doesn't. Autos Uber Alles.
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:47 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
jeff wrote:
As long as we are on the topic of activisim, we should organize some kind of activist ride. I'm thinking one that starts at 7 p.m. on Thursdays from westlake center. Also, drinking should be involved as well as a moderate amount of safety.
Anyone else think this is a good idea?
terrible idea
remind me to hit you the next time i see you
kythxbi
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
snyd3282
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:56 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
One passive aggressive approach would be to send these guys at SDOT dozens and dozens of requests for bike racks at the school.
Joined: 18 Aug 2007Posts: 222Location: Seattle (Downtown)
zuvembi wrote:
I'd be happy to throw in some money myself. But really, the more important part is getting the school district to admit they need them in the first place.
In a perfect world, I would hope that the school district would admit to a need for bicycle racks, especially given the benefit/$ ratio. In the imperfect world that we live in, however, I posit that providing bicycle racks for the kids is more important: they don't really care who's getting in a pissing contest over auto/bicycle advocacy, as long as they have racks that they can use. Let's not forget about the children in our zeal to put down the predominant auto mentality.
Think of this as nonviolent resistance. It's harder and may not get as much press, but when communities step in to fill the gap that governments refuse to fill, they assert their own existence and eventually make the other side look silly. Actions speak louder than words, and sadly, the ongoing dialogue between bicyclists and drivers has no shortage of the latter and a definite lack of the former.
laura
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:00 am
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
Richard responded:
1) DOT is giving them racks.
2) School District is helping design & plan the racks to allow parking for 50 bikes, but no covered spots.
3) They are "resigned" to the grant process.
4) They have worked with Hiller at CBC and have made no progress beyond the grant. (DUH!) It seemed suggested that if Ka$cade can't do it, all hope is lost.
5) They may want community input for the grant process, but that would be later on.
I don't think this is really an issue. Covered parking is a nice idea, but a bag on the seat works just as well. The school will have racks. If they want to go the grant route with Ka$cade's ultimate guidance, so be it.
There is no shortage of other things for SLB to get involved in.
zuvembi
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:05 am
Joined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 942Location: Little Addis Ababa
Chris wrote:
zuvembi wrote:
I'd be happy to throw in some money myself. But really, the more important part is getting the school district to admit they need them in the first place.
In a perfect world, I would hope that the school district would admit to a need for bicycle racks, especially given the benefit/$ ratio. In the imperfect world that we live in, however, I posit that providing bicycle racks for the kids is more important: they don't really care who's getting in a pissing contest over auto/bicycle advocacy, as long as they have racks that they can use. Let's not forget about the children in our zeal to put down the predominant auto mentality.
Think of this as nonviolent resistance. It's harder and may not get as much press, but when communities step in to fill the gap that governments refuse to fill, they assert their own existence and eventually make the other side look silly. Actions speak louder than words, and sadly, the ongoing dialogue between bicyclists and drivers has no shortage of the latter and a definite lack of the former.
I don't think I made myself clear. I wasn't talking about changing their mindset. I'm just saying that we can provide racks, but unless they let us put them in they're not much use.
I mean I'd be happy to show up with my masonry drill and do some guerrilla bike rack installation, but I'd hate to see them just get removed a week later.
DJStroky
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:05 am
Joined: 25 May 2007Posts: 356Location: Downtown Tacoma
Chris wrote:
How much do bike racks cost? Would it be possible to set up a community-funded effort to provide the school with bike racks? I would be willing to contribute, and I'm sure that many other bicycle commuters, activists, and parents would, too.
Cost to purchase and install one bike parking rack: $150
Estimated cost of constructing one parking space in a paved lot: $2,200
Estimated cost of constructing one parking space in a garage: $12,500
However, I think these numbers are old. I think a structured parking space is more like $20,000 not including the cost of land.
_________________ Tacoma isn't that bad... well maybe it is
Chris
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:11 am
Joined: 18 Aug 2007Posts: 222Location: Seattle (Downtown)
zuvembi wrote:
I don't think I made myself clear. I wasn't talking about changing their mindset. I'm just saying that we can provide racks, but unless they let us put them in they're not much use.
I mean I'd be happy to show up with my masonry drill and do some guerrilla bike rack installation, but I'd hate to see them just get removed a week later.
Whoops, sorry! I agree with this sentiment entirely; it never occurred to me that the school district might reject something that was given to it for free. :)
Chris
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:17 am
Joined: 18 Aug 2007Posts: 222Location: Seattle (Downtown)
laura wrote:
Richard responded:
1) DOT is giving them racks.
2) School District is helping design & plan the racks to allow parking for 50 bikes, but no covered spots.
3) They are "resigned" to the grant process.
4) They have worked with Hiller at CBC and have made no progress beyond the grant. (DUH!) It seemed suggested that if Ka$cade can't do it, all hope is lost.
5) They may want community input for the grant process, but that would be later on.
I don't think this is really an issue. Covered parking is a nice idea, but a bag on the seat works just as well. The school will have racks. If they want to go the grant route with Ka$cade's ultimate guidance, so be it.
This makes me feel much better; the article made the situation sound more hopeless than it actually is.
EDIT Re: Trevor's post below:
Does anyone actually know the average percentage of students that bike to school when racks are provided? King of the Fries?
Last edited by Chris on Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:18 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
personally, i don't give a rats ass about covered parking, but 50 spots for 1500 students and 150 staff? somebody wanna do a % breakout on those numbers? Seems pretty damn weak if you ask me...and compare that to other newer schools like listed in the article...AND the fact they're pulling the bus system. kinda just gives the finger to those who cannot afford a car or bus pass.
Sure there are are always better things to organize, but this seems like a no brainer.
<edit>
my keyboard = shit...sorry for the lousy typing.
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:40 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
Chris wrote:
Whoops, sorry! I agree with this sentiment entirely; it never occurred to me that the school district might reject something that was given to it for free. :)
In my short history of dealing with SPS, I know it's quite possible the school district will reject something it was given for free.
On the other hand, if you give something to a school that the school wants, they're likely to take it even if the district says not to. There is a problem that the larger a school, the more likely some disgruntled parent will rat you out to the board of the P-I or what have you, but my guess is that if you donated racks directly to Garfield, and installing them was easy, they'd be installed.
Case in point, my kid's school was one of those that had the awful pipes a few years back. SPS didn't and wouldn't test the water, so the parents paid for and conducted the water testing themselves.
But that's only a temporary solution. In the long run, you want to raise the stink so that every new school has bike parking (just as with the water incident, parents at a couple of the schools raised a stink, and the district tested all the pipes in every school).
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:48 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
Chris wrote:
EDIT Re: Trevor's post below:
Does anyone actually know the average percentage of students that bike to school when racks are provided? King of the Fries?
It varies wildly, and it's generally pretty low --- most grade schoolers are too young to safely bike alone, and most high schoolers want to drive. My kid's elementary school has a single (covered, pretty secure) bike rack that gets on average, maybe 1 bike a day. I know of one teacher that bikes as well (she locks her bike next to her classroom). But it's not a neighborhood school, so it's perhaps not representative.
A little effort on the part of the parents can get the number of bike riders up, at least for something like Bike to Work/School month, but vague memory says we're only talking something like 30-50 kids at Laurelhurst (a neighborhood school with I'd guess 300 students, so 10-20% for one month).
Also remember that during the most pleasant months to ride bikes, school is out.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
snyd3282
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:48 am
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
TrikerTrev wrote:
personally, i don't give a rats ass about covered parking, but 50 spots for 1500 students and 150 staff?
= 1 bike spot per 33 people (students + staff), or enough that 3% of them can bicycle to school.
...searching for statistics now, but the Seattle commute numbers has us at 3% to 4% right now for the population as a whole.
jeff
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:59 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
Can I be the first to address the giant fucking elephant in the corner?
The small percentage of kids who ride their bikes to school are usually band nerds or other socially inept retards (*see much of .83).
By highlighting their plight, you are leading them to even more beat downs.
Nice work.
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:02 am
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
This is just students (elementary) who signed up to participate last May. Taking Laurelhurst's numbers, 100 students, out of (apparently) 429 logged 1141 round trips in the month of May, 2007. I believe there were 22 school days in May 2007, so that's about 12% of the trips, on one of the best schools during a spring month when they were encouraged to participate.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
laura
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:05 am
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
TrikerTrev wrote:
Sure there are are always better things to organize, but this seems like a no brainer.
What's a no brainer is they aren't looking for help. Not from me as an individual or from Seattle Likes Bikes. I asked.
lantius
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:22 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
jeff wrote:
Can I be the first to address the giant fucking elephant in the corner?
The small percentage of kids who ride their bikes to school are usually band nerds or other socially inept retards (*see much of .83).
By highlighting their plight, you are leading them to even more beat downs.
Nice work.
jeff, are you just upset that less kids on bikes means less kids for you to cruise by in your van and offer candy to?
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:36 am
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
laura wrote:
TrikerTrev wrote:
Sure there are are always better things to organize, but this seems like a no brainer.
What's a no brainer is they aren't looking for help. Not from me as an individual or from Seattle Likes Bikes. I asked.
hmm
then i must be missing something betwixt the article he wrote and the details he gave you...not saying your info is wrong or anything like that.
but if it's not a big deal, then why the article?
if they cant get any more $ for more racks, then turn down help?
If they "may want community input" why wait...we're part of teh biking community and were offering our help. Activism takes time...and Ka$kade isn't the only horse and pony show in town.
if they're resigned to a whopping 50 slots for +1600 folks, great...whatever, I think that BS and more could/should be done. If they don't want help fine, but he sure made it sound like theres work to be done here.
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
DJStroky
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:38 am
Joined: 25 May 2007Posts: 356Location: Downtown Tacoma
More Statistics!
In the US:
41% of all trips in 2001 were shorter than 2 miles
28% were shorter than 1 mile.
Americans use their cars for:
66% of all trips up to a mile long
89% of all trips between 1 and 2 miles long.
_________________ Tacoma isn't that bad... well maybe it is
laura
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:48 am
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
TrikerTrev wrote:
but if it's not a big deal, then why the article?
Not sure. And I agree. I was surprised at his response, given the article.
I guess it's about equality. That is, Ballard and Roosevelt got covered bike racks and it isn't fair that Garfield/the CD doesn't get the same thing.
The column is worded that Garfield will only get the 12 bike the BLRB architect proposed. That conflicts with his email response and honestly, unless DOT promised those 50 spots this morning after press time, that information should have been in the dang column. It's misrepresenting the situation.
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:19 pm
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
Thanks Laura, i appreciate the fact that someone else recognizes that Richard was being a racial tard. I'm so blind to that it didn't even register. I was all ready to fight for this, but if it's about why one school has covered racks and garfield does not, then MAKE THAT CLEAR. I wouldn't have gotten passionate about that, really. You ride a bike, you live in Seattle, you get wet...deal with it.
Greg, i was pushing this harder 'cause it focused on high schoolers, and as a parent (and i'm sure you can appreciate this) i'm trying to show my sons that you don't HAVE to be a slave to the car...there are options. As a parent that is active at teh grade school level regarding bike safety and options, I was irritated that it seemed that the school district was willing to cut off it's nose to spite their face...or so it seemed.
Jeff, i'm all about pushing the plight of band geeks. nothing hurts worse that a trumpet in the balls! Or so i've been told.
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
snyd3282
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:26 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
Hmm, if I read this right, they need 50 bicycle parking spaces and after that they need additional bike racks equaling 1/2 of the number of car parking spaces.
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:45 pm
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
B.10. Schools, secondary (middle and high) = 2 per classroom
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
the dreaded ben
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:51 pm
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
activism is serious business!
jesus fucking christ, are you people ever funny?
lantius
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:54 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
the dreaded ben wrote:
jesus fucking christ, are you people ever funny?
no. are you?
the dreaded ben
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:59 pm
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
lantius wrote:
the dreaded ben wrote:
jesus fucking christ, are you people ever funny?
no. are you?
if you're not careful, i just might not ride tonight...
lantius
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:00 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
the dreaded ben wrote:
lantius wrote:
the dreaded ben wrote:
jesus fucking christ, are you people ever funny?
no. are you?
if you're not careful, i just might not ride tonight...
that's nygaard's line!
gsbarnes
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:13 pm
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
TrikerTrev wrote:
B.10. Schools, secondary (middle and high) = 2 per classroom
With 1500 students, Garfield has at least 40 classrooms. From the floor plans, it looks more like 50, not counting the gym and performing arts center.
P.S. Ben, I'm not riding tonight.
_________________ I have always thought in the back of my mind: Cheese and Onions
TrikerTrev
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:15 pm
Joined: 23 Oct 2006Posts: 2303Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
wait...
bens telling us HES not gonna ride tonight?
woah, everythings spinning now...
...thats as funny as i can get behind a corp firewall
_________________ Insufferable ass, est. 1969
snyd3282
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:15 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
From a thread on the CBC forums, the School District got their permits before the ordinance changed in Dec 2006 (and it seems that we can thank CBC for helping to push the current ordinance in place).
The CBC suggestion for letter writing is:
Quote:
1. Adequate long-term bicycle parking shall be provided at all renovated, rebuilt, or new schools in compliance with City of Seattle bicycle parking requirements. (See Seattle Land Use Code 23.49.019) Those requirements include 1 bicycle parking space per elementary school classroom and 2 spaces per middle or high school classroom. After 50 bicycle parking spaces are provided, the required spaces per classroom are ½ of the original.
2. At least 60% of long-term bicycle parking shall be covered.
As the District looks toward alternatives to yellow bus service students need secure and protected bicycle parking to both encourage and enable cycling to school.
Send your letters to:
Fred Stephens, Director of Facilities
Seattle School District
MS 22-332
P.O. Box 34165
Seattle, WA 98124-1165
All times are GMT - 8 Hours
The time now is Sat Aug 12, 2023 1:11 pm
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 2303
Location: FOCO, MOFO!!!
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 555
Location: Wallingford
could suck the fun out of a blowjob
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 588
Location: Ballard / Fremont
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 222
Location: Seattle (Downtown)
Grumpy Greeb
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 5329
Location: flavor country
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 1050
Location: wherever the dance party is
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 942
Location: Little Addis Ababa
Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 356
Location: Downtown Tacoma
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 2666
Location: No Fun Town, USA
1337
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 6705
Location: right over
