the "Man on Bike" in this is none other than Zoobomb leader Rev Phil.
_________________ Some of us like things. Some of us are just joyless, bitter assholes.
derrickito
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:25 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
if an officer tells you to stop, then you start to flee, dont you expect to be thrown to the ground and put under control because you're directly disobeying them?
i think there are probably some holes in that guys story. im not saying that the cops might not have enjoyed tasering the guy (hell i'd enjoy tasering someone)... but c'mon, if you're getting pulled over then you gun it to get away, you gotta expect that they are going to come for you. and if you defend yourself against cops trying to do a traffic stop they aren't going to call timeout, they're going to put your ass down.
henry
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:51 pm
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
henry wrote:
YOU CAN'T SAY THAT. COPS ARE BAD BIKES ARE GOOD.
especially when they're hassling you and your dad?
you know what i've never seen: police officers attacking people for perceived violations without clearly identifying themselves. oh wait! i did see that. tackling and tasering somebody over a bullshit thing - no light, jaywalking, being mouthy at a traffic stop, whatever is a fucking problem in america these days.
ripper
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:17 pm
evilmikeJoined: 19 Apr 2006Posts: 640Location: Capitalist Hill
tasers should not be compliance devices.
_________________ Some of us like things. Some of us are just joyless, bitter assholes.
derrickito
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:17 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
to me, from reading between the lines, it sounds like they told him to stop (probably just to heckle him about his light) but then he bolted. to a police officer trying to stop someone then them bolting, is GAME ON and means to them something is wrong. if a cop tried to pull over a car and the car ran off, you'd be sure they would run them down then pull them out of the car with guns drawn eh?
ripper
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:33 pm
evilmikeJoined: 19 Apr 2006Posts: 640Location: Capitalist Hill
derrickito wrote:
to me, from reading between the lines, it sounds like they told him to stop (probably just to heckle him about his light) but then he bolted. to a police officer trying to stop someone then them bolting, is GAME ON and means to them something is wrong. if a cop tried to pull over a car and the car ran off, you'd be sure they would run them down then pull them out of the car with guns drawn eh?
well, the tackled him OFF his bike, so I presume that he wasn't bolting. reading between the lines and all. if you were on your bike, and someone was on foot, could they tackle you?
_________________ Some of us like things. Some of us are just joyless, bitter assholes.
jeff
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:34 pm
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
Getting tazered, would blow, but I think what really must sting is living in Portland to begin with. AMIRITE?
derrickito
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:37 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
bah. we can probably debate it forever, but since we all werent there, im speculating/you're speculating. im trying to play devils advocate on behalf of the police. it might have looked like he wasnt listening to them on purpose and trying to get away.
someone running could tackle me off a bike easily enough if they caught up to me.
Joe
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:43 pm
Joined: 15 Feb 2007Posts: 430
I'd like to taser everyone involved in that story.
joby
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:12 pm
goes to elevenJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 3899Location: The Cloud
derrickito wrote:
it might have looked like he wasnt listening to them on purpose and trying to get away.
So the two of them fucking tazed him after fucking knocking him off his bike? Are you fucking kidding?
ksep
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:26 pm
Joined: 27 Jan 2007Posts: 1879Location: Westlake
I'm remembering when the SPD made an appearance at the greenlake race ~9 months ago.
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:39 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
Sounds like Rev Phil only got to one star on the GTA scale before getting caught.
Amateur...
mcrawfor
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:37 am
Joined: 09 May 2006Posts: 1039Location: Ballard
ripper wrote:
if you were on your bike, and someone was on foot, could they tackle you?
Asshole thug outside the Galway says: Yes! My black eye agreed.
It's all about accelleration over short distances.
_________________ -miles
derrickito
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:28 am
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
joby wrote:
derrickito wrote:
it might have looked like he wasnt listening to them on purpose and trying to get away.
So the two of them fucking tazed him after fucking knocking him off his bike? Are you fucking kidding?
so a cop tells you to stop, he sees you not stopping and looking like you're trying to get away... then you fight with them to get away more. once you start fighting with a cop, he's going to do whatever he needs to do to stop you from fighting. in this case, a taser to stop you in your tracks.
it might seem drastic, but think about it from the police perspective. if they try and stop a car for something minor like a light out, then that car guns it, they aren't going to be nice at that point are they?
i understand the similarities people see and feel from the zack case. but i dont see them here. mr phil says he didnt know they were cops, but it sure sounds like they were in uniform to me (uniforms are dark, uniformed officers carry tasers as well as lots of other things). i just see holes in his story. he couldnt see them because it was dark? cities at night aren't so dark that you can't tell a uniformed cop from a random hobo.
i could be wrong, maybe the cop was tackle/taze crazy that night. but the story sounds like it has holes in it and hes not telling it exactly like it was.
more info needed!
jeff
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:39 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
I hate to play devil's advocate, but did anyone else notice that the police cruiser was on the scene with it's lights on?
A written statement just released by the Portland Police Bureau’s Public Information Officer Brian Schmautz says that the officers were in uniform and were dealing with another woman and had “turned on their lights to alert traffic while they talked to her.”*
Not saying he got what he deserved, just pointing this out.
Happy Stick Person
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:49 am
Joined: 20 Sep 2006Posts: 1168Location: Leschi
i don't know about all y'all, but my brain seems to be hardwired to turn me into a passive two year old siting in time out at the first sign of cops.
i mean 99% of em are macho rednecks itching of an excuse to play with their toys. why fucking provoke em? remember those kids in san francisco that got mauled by that tiger? same goddamn thing.
evilmikeJoined: 19 Apr 2006Posts: 640Location: Capitalist Hill
jeff wrote:
A written statement just released by the Portland Police Bureau’s Public Information Officer Brian Schmautz says that the officers were in uniform and were dealing with another woman and had “turned on their lights to alert traffic while they talked to her.”*
Not saying he got what he deserved, just pointing this out.
wait, a written statement from the cops who were just accused of beating and tasing a guy?
_________________ Some of us like things. Some of us are just joyless, bitter assholes.
jeff
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:00 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
Evil Mike, even if the cops are lying, the cruiser was on the scene and puts a bit of a dent in his "I didn't know the guy was a cop story."
ripper
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:06 am
evilmikeJoined: 19 Apr 2006Posts: 640Location: Capitalist Hill
jeff wrote:
Evil Mike, even if the cops are lying, the cruiser was on the scene and puts a bit of a dent in his "I didn't know the guy was a cop story."
guess he deserved it then.
thanks, police state! you've won.
_________________ Some of us like things. Some of us are just joyless, bitter assholes.
jeff
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:13 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
jeff wrote:
Not saying he got what he deserved, just pointing this out.
Yeah ... Mike took the words right out of my mouth.
lantius
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:16 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
unless rev phil had a gun or portland has a particularly laissez-faire attitude towards police force i'm guessing this is probably still a violation of the ppb's taser policy.
given the role of the police in our society, the simple question here should be: does this incident make me feel safer? for me the answer is no.
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:48 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
My lawyer has advised me to make an ass out of myself.
This one is pretty gray. On one hand, we have a cop who is known to ticket cyclists, and on the other, an intoxicated cyclist who is known to have run ins with police, was braking a city ordinance, tried to flee when asked to stop, and then resisted being detained when he didn't stop.
So the order goes about like this:
Riding without a light
Cop spots you without a light and asks you to stop
You make a run for it
Cop tries to stop you using reasonable force (Really, try to stop someone riding by without tossing them from the bike)
After being stopped, you get up, and resist further
Seriously? Hmm, can't think of any reason why the cop would have tazered him.
I am not an advocate for the police state, but as a rule, people don't try to run from cops unless they have something on them they don't want to cops to find, a warrant on them, are in the process of committing a crime, or something akin to this. Cops have pretty wide latitude to stop people who run from them for this reason. Cops get a pass on this one.
I'm not saying it couldn't have been handled better, but the police didn't do anything out of line here.
Besides, I'm sure that any booze in Phil's system was that new kind of booze that heightens your perception, and records an audio and visual log which rivals the accuracy of six well positioned HiDef video cameras. He couldn't possibly be forgetting, omitting, or been oblivious to anything which happened.
derrickito
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:52 am
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
so when are we going to ride in protest of all things portland?
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:54 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
I was thinking about a protest ride against the Internet.
lantius
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:04 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
wait, what's your claim that phil "made a run for it"? he claims he stopped pedaling and was coasting to a stop.
police officers should not get a pass on taser use. it's not the kind of tool that should be used by mistake so often, or for such trivial reasons. which would be fine, if it weren't potentially deadly and as such condemned by groups like amnesty international.
i agree that the cops were totally within their right to ask him to stop, since he was breaking the law. what happened beyond that appears to be unnecessary escalation of force.
we have always known the police to be up front and truthful when they make a mistake though, so i'm sure they couldn't possibly be exaggerating the circumstances to justify their behavior.
if phil is as guilty as you guys think, why isn't he being charged?
"According to a source who is a lawyer that means (for whatever reason) the case is not going forward, but the charges can brought back to life at a later date. My source says this could be an indication that either the police or the DA’s office didn’t think they could prove, or didn’t want to try to prove, the charges."
my advice: stop for the cops and cooperate. but don't act like it's totally okay if somebody doesn't comply and they beat up and taser somebody else for a bullshit nothing reason. that's not how that works.
derrickito
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:14 am
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
im buying a fucking taser and am going to take any of you people down whenever i feel like it.
im starting with lee
lantius
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:15 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
derrickito wrote:
im buying a fucking taser and am going to take any of you people down whenever i feel like it.
im starting with lee
only if you aim for my nipples.
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:19 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
lantius wrote:
wait, what's your claim that phil "made a run for it"? he claims he stopped pedaling and was coasting to a stop.
Phil says he stopped pedaling, sure, but not pedaling is the same as stopping. I think the issue would be easier to understand with a crime scene drawing with notes about where Phil was when he was told to stop, where he was removed from his bike, and where the tazing happened. It seems like Phil's path took him within arm's reach (give or take a step or two) of the cop, which would explain the snatching him off his bike. If this is true, then Phil may not have had time to even try to stop yet, and the cop may have acted prematurely. But if the cop had to chase Phil down (for all of two steps), Phil had fair warning.
lantius wrote:
my advice: stop for the cops and cooperate. but don't act like it's totally okay if somebody doesn't comply and they beat up and taser somebody else for a bullshit nothing reason. that's not how that works.
I agree with the stop and comply part. However, I'm not convinced this was a use of excessive force.
lantius
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:26 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
SeditiousCanary wrote:
lantius wrote:
my advice: stop for the cops and cooperate. but don't act like it's totally okay if somebody doesn't comply and they beat up and taser somebody else for a bullshit nothing reason. that's not how that works.
I agree with the stop and comply part. However, I'm not convinced this was a use of excessive force.
most police forces authorize taser use only as a last resort alternative to deadly force. that's partially because of highly publicized taser-related fatalities. i hope you agree that deadly force would have been clearly excessive?
BOOSH!Joined: 17 Jul 2007Posts: 2042Location: Nearest bar.
Fuck da police.
SeditiousCanary
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:38 am
sorry, can't make it!Joined: 26 Jan 2006Posts: 2315Location: Fremont Troll
lantius wrote:
i hope you agree that deadly force would have been clearly excessive?
Stop being asinine Lee. This isn't even an argument to either your point or mine. You're just being sensationalistic.
lantius
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:53 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
SeditiousCanary wrote:
lantius wrote:
i hope you agree that deadly force would have been clearly excessive?
Stop being asinine Lee. This isn't even an argument to either your point or mine. You're just being sensationalistic.
you claim their force used wasn't inappropriate, i'm claiming it absolutely was. i hope that i never fail to comply adequately (at whatever discretion an officer feels) and get tased. it's an inappropriate use of the tool. it's meant to be used instead of a gun, not instead of physical restraint or other stuff i'm hoping they still teach in police school.
so when are we going to ride in protest of all things portland?
I agree. I'm selling my Portland, because I refuse to ride a bicycle supporting a city's FALSE BICYCLE CULTURE when the city really has a REAL POLICE STATE CULTURE.
$1500. Gas prices are rising, get a bike while you can to stick it to The Man and The Police State which is funded by The Man.
I lke the debate. Debating the role of peace keepers becaomes more important all the time. FWIW i hope that none of you are ever tasered (uh without your consent?).
_________________ revphil treats objects like women, or so i am told.
Eric_s
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:20 pm
Joined: 07 Mar 2007Posts: 1691Location: the dirty south
pedopalooza makes NAMBLA* and all the other handmade shows look like pikers, and it's basically two weeks of filmed by bike parties all over, with hippies on bikes everywhere.
*NAHBS. too many letters, starts with an N, couldn't resist.
Last edited by Eric_s on Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total
tehschkott
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:13 am
daywalkerJoined: 09 Nov 2007Posts: 6108Location: Hatertown
Last year was pretty rad. I'm going this year too.
_________________ GREAT UNITER / ORACLE / ELDER
MOOAAR DONGS
GingerMac
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:01 am
Joined: 05 Dec 2008Posts: 167Location: Ravenna
I think what the police taising debate needs is more
videos of police taising for controll group comparisons...
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evilmike
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now with 50 percent more EVIL
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1337
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goes to eleven
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sorry, can't make it!
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BOOSH!
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rookie
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