I saw about a 3rd of this go down and it was very fucking disturbing. Does anybody know the whole story here?
I rode past and saw a group of cyclists around the car, which looked as if it'd backed up onto the curb, and I kept on rolling. 30 seconds later, the car's speeding down the street towards me with somebody hanging on the top of it. It stops and utter mayhem ensues. I didn't stick around to see the conclusion.
I gotta say -- whatever the driver did do, he certainly didn't deserve the treatment I saw. I did what I could to make the situation (a little) better, and I hope I never have to see that again. I'm not calling anybody out here, just looking for some more information and thoughts...
Last edited by seabiscuit on Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total
john
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:53 am
AAAARRRRRGGGGbllll pppphtt!Joined: 26 Aug 2006Posts: 725Location: In the lab.
nice going!
_________________ In der Not frisst der Teufel Fliegen.
Oh, is that why half the mass disappeared around there? I was in the front half when crossing that intersection so I had no idea about this incident until I saw your post.
And as you may have heard, there was an injury/wreck at 19th ave and Boyer (after riding down Interlaken Dr). What's the status on that person? Are they ok? Who was it? The details at the time were sketchy. Most of us were loitering at the top of that 19th ave hill, a few were at the bottom with the person, and there was little communication between the two groups (other than someone reporting that the person was "pretty hurt"). I noticed the mass was smaller at that point, apparently because a bunch of people were dealing with the Aloha incident?
Some other general CM comments:
I know lots of people enjoy showing up at Westlake and hanging out with their buddies, but it would be nice if the ride would start sooner rather than later. What's the point of telling new people that there's a "ride at 5:30pm" when the ride doesn't actually start until 6:30pm? A number of people were ready to depart at 6pm, but weren't able to rally the troops to get a move on. It's possible to ride and chat with friends at the same time. Why stand around for so long?
For some people, a big part of CM is showing drivers that biking is fun and that bikers are also traffic. This is why traditionally rides take place during rush hour -- more drivers can see all the happy bicyclists. But if people delay the ride until rush hour has died down, then that kinda defeats that goal.
Similarly, I heard some separate riders around the volunteer park area wonder why we were riding around in residential areas and avoiding traffic. I admit that it's nice to take a scenic route at times during CM, but I know some have little interest in speeding down Interlaken during CM since they can do that on their own on other days.
What happened to riding in streets with a ton of cars (i.e. NE 45th St.)? What happened to departing at 5:30pm? (Which did happen, people just started massing and hanging out earlier).
Yeah, I sound like a grumpy geezer here. Sorry. Tonight's ride just felt a little strange though, and not just because my rear breaks broke early on. On the plus side, I did like the amount of time that was spent downtown. Too often I think the mass high tails it out of downtown way too quickly.
mechagodzilla
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:15 am
Joined: 07 Mar 2007Posts: 55Location: hipster ghetto, wa
Sensationalism at it's finest.
"...Two passengers may have been in the Subaru - one of which may have been a pregnant woman..."
Oldmesenger82
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:51 am
Joined: 30 Jun 2006Posts: 204Location: Fremont
What a mess.
jeff
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:12 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
Breaking news: Assholes ride bikes too!
Alex
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:16 am
Joined: 18 May 2006Posts: 3128Location: Roosevelt
stinkbug wrote:
Oh, is that why half the mass disappeared around there? I was in the front half when crossing that intersection so I had no idea about this incident until I saw your post.
I didn't know about this either. I was also closer to the front and didn't know where everyone had gone.
Quote:
I know lots of people enjoy showing up at Westlake and hanging out with their buddies, but it would be nice if the ride would start sooner rather than later. What's the point of telling new people that there's a "ride at 5:30pm" when the ride doesn't actually start until 6:30pm?
It's pretty much always been meet at 5:30, ride at 6. If the ride actually started at 5:30 than more than half of the riders that I know wouldn't be able to make it.
It was a nice evening and I don't see any harm in socializing at Westlake for an extra 15 minutes and picking up some additional riders.
Quote:
Similarly, I heard some separate riders around the volunteer park area wonder why we were riding around in residential areas and avoiding traffic. I admit that it's nice to take a scenic route at times during CM, but I know some have little interest in speeding down Interlaken during CM since they can do that on their own on other days.
The ride had more downtown riding than average ones. Broadway is also a high traffic area.
This is one of the better CM's that I've been on, and probably the best this year. We looped around downtown a bit, the mood was generally light (although I missed the Aloha incident) and the .83 splinter group that went to the Pacific Inn provided good company and a nice way to finish off the evening.
alex
ksep
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:36 am
Joined: 27 Jan 2007Posts: 1879Location: Westlake
criticalmass@scrimass.org wrote:
There was an incident on 7/25/08 during Critical Mass ride at 15th and Aloha.
3-4 bikers were blocking off a car so the rest of the riders can continue, they were telling the driver that he needs to wait couple of minutes. Driver was inpatient, and kept telling things like "I have a reservation, I have to go" There was more bikes blocking him off because of the argument, at some point the driver got very mad, and turned around going on the side walk, almost hitting some bikes. Then the bikers started getting closer to the car so he wouldnt drive in the middle of the riders, and the argument got heated. Bikers were telling him to wait, and all of a sudden the driver said something like "Fuck this" and drove into the bikers. He intentionally hit people, injuring 2 bikers, and smashing couple of bikes, and back packs. He started driving away while everyone was running away from him so they wouldnt get hit as well.
Some bikers ran after the car, while others call 911. By the time police showed up, 2 of the car windows were broken and his tires were slashed. When the driver saw the police, he started crying and saying he was just scared, but none of the bikers even touched him before he ran over people.
I heard someone saying "The tires were slashed so he couldnt drive off"
2 of the bikers got arrested for property damage, and they are booked to jail. THEY HAVE COURT TODAY STARTING AT 12.30 PM AT KING COUNTY COURT HOUSE, COURT ROOM #1. So we need people who saw what happened to contact us, because the driver is trying to pull off that he didnt do anything.
Channel 5 tried to interview us, but we refused to talk with them, and it seems like media is showing the incident like "Violent bikers attacked a car..."
Bikers who got hit by the maniac driver, and bikers who got arrested need support from the community. Please contact via e-mail ekirgoz@yahoo.com, if you were witness or if you could show any kind of support, and share ideas...
I will post updates on this case but in the mean time please remember there is a court today !!!
_________________ -Kevin
ethan
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:21 am
Joined: 21 Jan 2008Posts: 920Location: Maple Leaf
Critical Madness. Hope the bikers involved get off with lower sentences or whatever .... I’d like to assume that the driver “started” it, but I didn’t see it so I can’t say. As we all know, rarely are these kinda things totally one-sided.
Hope the guy who wiped out on that steep hill is OK.
Well it’s been four Masses for me now so I’ll throw in my two cents of critique. When riding on two-way streets which have three lanes per direction, why the hell can’t people stay on the right side of the street, and let cars go in the opposite direction? I mean a quick passing or something is one thing, but... yesterday I saw something I’d never seen before ... this guy was corking a car which was trying to drive the opposite direction as us (like, not at an intersection or nothing… about half way thru a block on, I think, 1st or 3rd Ave). WTF??
Anyway, damn fun times as usual … both on the ride, then at the Pacific Inn too. Recruited my friend Louis for his first Mass. Said he’ll be coming back, both for Masses and also maybe for .83 rides.
moronbros
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:36 am
Joined: 01 Apr 2006Posts: 22Location: oh somewhere up by shoreline
It's clear the media is going to try and spin this one way or the other, no matter who started it. We can't control that.
However, we (as cyclists) really, really need to make sure we don't respond to this incident negatively and aggressively. 99 percent of the people in the mass are good people - ones that aren't starting fights or participating in mob violence. We should make sure we can articulate our purpose. Don't act like the assholes that threaten people and smash their windows. No wonder the guy was freaking out. It didn't have to come to that. He most definitely didn't deserve what he got. Everyone loses in this situation.
You guys did the right thing not talking to King5. They're just going to piss you off and make you say things that downplay us as a group. It's just going to be one more reason for everyone else to talk shit about the mass.
We're not bad people and we're supporting a good cause. What's done is done, so let's try to control ourselves and not over-react. I'd just hate to see anyone else get pulled into this and get sentenced with whatever they throw at us.
I don't need to tell anyone how to support friends, you guys are the best at doing this already. Keep up the good work.
_________________ Hard work pays off over time; Laziness pays off NOW.
stinkbug
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:37 am
Joined: 28 Aug 2005Posts: 36
Alex wrote:
It's pretty much always been meet at 5:30, ride at 6. If the ride actually started at 5:30 than more than half of the riders that I know wouldn't be able to make it.
Recently, yes. But it hasn't always been like that. it used to roll out at 5:45pm or so. Yesterday it was about 6:30pm. I don't mind socializing, but I enjoy doing that mostly during and after the ride.
Here's the Seattle Times take on the Aloha incident:
Headline: "Critical Mass riders attack, injure driver on Capitol Hill"
in the body: "The man tried to back up, but bumped into a biker. ... The driver tried to drive away, but hit another bicyclist, [police spokesman] said."
Thanks for the slanted headline, Seattle Times!
tehschkott
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:02 am
daywalkerJoined: 09 Nov 2007Posts: 6108Location: Hatertown
I saw the guy getting angry but kept on riding.
This is bad juju for all cyclists. Basically it's been turned into an us against them thing. Unfortunately I think we as a community rally behind these two - whatever their affiliation - as simple guys trying to keep other cyclists from being hurt, or suffer hella crackdown.
Media's already spinning bullshit like,
"we're told there were two passengers in the car, one of them...
DUN DUN DUN
...might have been,
DUN DUN DUN
a pregnant woman!"
And now it turns from cyclists protecting cyclists from roadrage drivers, to cyclists attacking a man and his pregnant wife in their car on the way to dinner, man tries to protect family by...
If you saw something, then go down to the courthouse in the next half hour and tell them what you saw. Whatever it was.
_________________ GREAT UNITER / ORACLE / ELDER
MOOAAR DONGS
Padraic
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:18 pm
Joined: 16 Oct 2007Posts: 69Location: Capital Hill
ethan wrote:
When riding on two-way streets which have three lanes per direction, why the hell can’t people stay on the right side of the street, and let cars go in the opposite direction? I mean a quick passing or something is one thing, but... yesterday I saw something I’d never seen before ... this guy was corking a car which was trying to drive the opposite direction as us (like, not at an intersection or nothing… about half way thru a block on, I think, 1st or 3rd Ave). WTF??
I agree. There was no viable point for that. That guy was effectively stopping one car from driving to the end of the block where the car would have been corked regardless. Shit like that is more likely to instigate a confrontation than promote the idea of riding bikes. As we were heading towards Pike. There was someone doing it again and a few riders called him out for acting retarded.
Everybody already knows this, but it's our individual responsibility to communicate with people when they're out of line before the mob mentality develops. It sucks that it got violent afterwards.
Oldmesenger82
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:00 pm
Joined: 30 Jun 2006Posts: 204Location: Fremont
The Stranger and the Seattle Times are. looking for witnesses. Does anyone have any pictures? I always ride with a camera just in case shit like this happens. Can people who were there send some letters to the editor? The more the better. I'm offering cash to help with injuries, wrecked bikes and legal fees.
btm
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:26 pm
Joined: 02 Jul 2008Posts: 493Location: Rural Maine
Oldmesenger82 wrote:
The Stranger and the Seattle Times are. looking for witnesses. Does anyone have any pictures? I always ride with a camera just in case shit like this happens. Can people who were there send some letters to the editor? The more the better. I'm offering cash to help with injuries, wrecked bikes and legal fees.
Joined: 12 Oct 2007Posts: 87Location: Greenwood/Phinney
The witness account is right on according to what I saw, but I only saw about a 3rd of what Ryan describes and I didn't witness any of the cyclists getting injured (I wasn't up there when the driver started moving again, so I wouldn't have seen it).
In other news: apologies again to the nice lady w/ the corncob pipe who I bumped going up the hill near volunteer park! Frankly, that's the kind of incident we need more of, I volunteer to be the bumpee next time.
Oldmesenger82
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Joined: 30 Jun 2006Posts: 204Location: Fremont
What happened in court today?
J
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:20 pm
Joined: 03 Aug 2007Posts: 179Location: by that one arco am/pm
Quote:
the nice lady w/ the corncob pipe
that is officially the best, if most inexplicable, characterization of me ever
don't fret about running into me. i am retarded and run into everything.
_________________ god damn problem bees
Eric_s
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:00 pm
Joined: 07 Mar 2007Posts: 1691Location: the dirty south
J wrote:
Quote:
the nice lady w/ the corncob pipe
that is officially the best, if most inexplicable, characterization of me ever
don't fret about running into me. i am retarded and run into everything.
Nice lady?!?!?! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH
_________________ That's Lemmy, Not Jesus.
snyd3282
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:10 pm
could suck the fun out of a blowjobJoined: 23 Jul 2007Posts: 588Location: Ballard / Fremont
Braun—a 35-year-old attorney who says prior to last night, he hadn’t been on a Critical Mass ride in years—says he was moving with a crowd of cyclists on 15th and Aloha when he says he heard the driver of a white Subaru yelling at his fellow riders. “I didn’t see anyone “surrounding” the guy’s car,” Braun says.”I saw some cyclists nicely asking the guy to wait.” Then, Braun says, the driver “just floored it” into a crowd of cyclists.
As the driver pulled away, Braun—who was not part of the group talking to the driver—was caught under the vehicle, and the car rolled over his leg. “I literally got run over,” Braun says. “I was hanging on the front of [the] car. I’m glad he made a left and tried to take off down the road. If he’d turned right, I would have been crushed.”
Braun was taken to the ER, and although he miraculously avoided breaking any bones during the incident, he may have sustained internal injuries as doctors found blood in his urine.
Braun says he’s been consulting with other attorneys about filing a lawsuit against the driver. Braun says he’s also getting ready to do an interview with King 5 in the hopes of setting the record straight. “I saw the media reports this morning and I was shocked,” Braun says. “Somebody’s got to get out what really happened. This was a vehicular assault that could have killed people.”
Joined: 22 Jun 2007Posts: 1050Location: wherever the dance party is
Per Remmy, who was waiting for his lady friend at teh Cap Hill Block Party and attended today's court proceedings, the two cyclists arrested spent the night in jail and were bailed out today around lunch. The motorist in question is being labeled as the victim, although *no one* ran him over. If he is charged, that will come on Monday. The motorist was late for his dinner reservation and apparently it is fucking ok to run someone over en route to your Friday dinner with the wife.
The actions that ensued are up for debate. However, nothing, NOTHING ok's running over anyone - cyclist, pedestrian, other vehicle, while trying to meet a deadline.
IMHO, it's complete bullshit that the only victim in this situation is the motorist. No, not the guy that got run over and by some miracle has no broken leg and whatever other body parts.
/end rant.
btw, i heart, heart, heart the fleet foxes. Thank you, CHBP.
Oldmesenger82
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:46 am
Joined: 30 Jun 2006Posts: 204Location: Fremont
LAME ASS report on KPLU this morning.
Balanced article in Times
The cops are LIARS!
derrickito
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:28 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
Well, at least they took the "pregnant woman" quip out of this version....
the dreaded ben
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:08 pm
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
idiots.
esra
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Joined: 26 Jul 2008Posts: 11
Hey guys, the two bikers who got arrested are being charged for slashing the tires with an intention of stopping the driver. The person who hit the driver hasnt been cought.
The two bikers have a court appearence on wednesday and I dont know if they need witnesses for this one yet.
But in my opinion, drivers statement is going to help them out: http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/07/a_few_questions
because idiot is pretty much is saying everything that the biker witnesses have been saying, except for the one that he was scared, and he didnt mean to hit people...
anyways, please support the bikers, I will update on this again...
Robin
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Joined: 05 Oct 2007Posts: 144Location: Seattle
As I rode past, the driver was visibly upset about not being able to proceed down the street. He had his window down and was shouting angrily that he had somewhere to be. Then I rode past and didn't see anymore. What's up the craziness? I guess it's OK to use your car as a weapon, as long as you cry when the police show up.
_________________ Toynbee Idea
esra
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:50 pm
Joined: 26 Jul 2008Posts: 11
Thats exactly what he did too, he started crying when the cops showed up...
Oldmesenger82
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Joined: 30 Jun 2006Posts: 204Location: Fremont
My letter to the editor, Seattle Times
Whatever your feelings about Critical Mass the driver involved in Friday nights incident should be charged. There is nothing that can justify running people over who pose no threat to you. Furthermore the cops are lying. It is clear from reports on the net from riders and a bystander that the driver started the whole mess. There was no need for the riders to smash the windows. Slashing the tires was a good way to prevent the driver from taking off. So why are the cops lying? I don't expect them to be perfect, they have a tough job and do what they can. What I don't expect for my tax money is for them to make false statements to the press. They can simply say they don't know until the investigation is complete. Full disclosure, I do 1 or 2 Masses a year.
The police report should be posted on line or can be requested.
stinkbug
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:07 pm
Joined: 28 Aug 2005Posts: 36
Are there any wiki fans that feel like re-writing this section:
The paragraph has already been changed a few times. The way it's currently written makes it sound like the tires were slashed (and the car was attacked) and then the guy tried to drive away. Ugh.
ksep
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:06 pm
Joined: 27 Jan 2007Posts: 1879Location: Westlake
ECB quoting Jonah quoting SPD spokesman Mark Jamieson wrote:
The driver at this point is being treated as the victim. He pulled out onto the street and was surrounded by cyclists. … Why didn’t they let him out into the street? The onus is on the people in the group.
Whatever your feelings about Critical Mass the driver involved in Friday nights incident should be charged. There is nothing that can justify running people over who pose no threat to you. Furthermore the cops are lying. It is clear from reports on the net from riders and a bystander that the driver started the whole mess. There was no need for the riders to smash the windows. Slashing the tires was a good way to prevent the driver from taking off. So why are the cops lying? I don't expect them to be perfect, they have a tough job and do what they can. What I don't expect for my tax money is for them to make false statements to the press. They can simply say they don't know until the investigation is complete. Full disclosure, I do 1 or 2 Masses a year.
The police report should be posted on line or can be requested.
Good going, Dave. I think all of us should write some version of that, or at some version of your first two sentences, to the Times. Flood their inbox. I'm normally pretty cynical/slacker when it comes to letter writing but i'm going to on this one. Important shit.
Mark says he rolled over two bicycles when his car lurched forward, before a crowd of cyclists swarmed him. One rider tried to punch him through his open car window, but missed, and others were clinging to his car as he sped off.
Although a number of reports have indicated that riders slashed the car’s tires, forcing it to stop, Mark says he heard a rider shout “someone’s really hurt” and slammed on his brakes. “I thought I just knocked 2 bikes over,” Mark says.
The cyclists who reacted by slashing his tires spent the night in jail. The driver who ran over two living, breathing people with his car went home without even being cited.
What does it take for the police to press charges in this town?
---
I'm glad I wasn't there, for many reasons.
I've noticed a few drivers ready to snap in the last few critical masses I've attended. More and more, they will inch their cars into corkers.
I try to speak kindly, with a calm voice, when I am corking. But there are those who use CM rides to say 'In Your Face' to drivers. Groupthink amplifies this behavior.
To me, Critical Mass should be a celebration of bicycle community, and an example to people on sidewalks and in cars that bikes can be fun, friendly transportation too.
This incident shows that we are not setting that example.
The news reports and comments on SLOG posts are overwhelmingly in the tone of "Critical Massers are assholes" and "Of course they deserved it".
What the driver did was clearly wrong. Critical Mass put him in the same situation in which they place many drivers, and he snapped. Riders were hurt, beloved bicycles crumpled, and, wait for it...
Nothing happened.
No public outrage against the driver. No charges against the driver. No good will towards cyclists.
Is this getting us anywhere? No.
I think the wall between 'everyday people' and bicyclists just got a little higher.
---
Is it worth my energy to try to change the Mass? Or should I seek out other ways to volunteer, and to help people realize they can happily, peacefully, safely ride a bike to work?
That's all I want.
ksep
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:34 am
Joined: 27 Jan 2007Posts: 1879Location: Westlake
Nice roundup at the Stranger this morning for the SLOG masses that may have missed it over the weekend.
ECB, fixie hater bicycle aficionado, is the news editor there now and the paper is pushing the correct order of events. Car got fucked up because car fucked people up.
_________________ -Kevin
jeff
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:42 am
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
abamfici wrote:
ECB, fixie hater bicycle aficionado, is the news editor there now and the paper is pushing the correct order of events. Car got fucked up because car fucked people up.
Sorry, but she is a hack and is not helping the situation.
the dreaded ben
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:43 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
ro
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:54 am
Joined: 29 Jun 2007Posts: 317
Ben
Is this how you spent your summer vacation?
Razi
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:27 pm
Joined: 16 Dec 2005Posts: 866Location: Seattle
ro wrote:
Ben
Is this how you spent your summer vacation?
Two points to the gentleman with impeccable taste in luggage!
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