what's the story with these, oh bike historians? are they dura-ace, and if so can we put them on brooke's bike?
futurenorth
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:33 am
Bed BleederJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 839Location: Ballard
Is that a Roadmaster? Who would go to the effort of equipping a department store bike with disc brakes?
_________________ We have met the enemy, and he is us.
joeball
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:39 am
Joined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 6037Location: Ether
Disc brakes are nothing new in terms of concept. I have a 1960-70 Schwinn Approved bike repair guide and they are in there. Obviously they are cable actuated. Heavy though. I've also seen them on old tandems.
I have a 80's BMX scooter that has a rear disc brake.
the dreaded ben
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:07 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
i've actually worked on that brake while doing a tune up. let's just suffice it to say they are not durace.
and also let it be known that there is never an excuse for using disc brakes on road bikes.
there, i have said my peace.
dennyt
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:26 am
rocket mechanicJoined: 02 Aug 2005Posts: 2708
the dreaded ben wrote:
let it be known that there is never an excuse for using disc brakes on road bikes.
there, i have said my peace.
...says the man who rides a singlespeed mountain bike, on the road, with disc brakes...
I wouldn't mind disc brakes on a cyclocross / touring bike. In fact, maybe I'll do it, just to piss you off!
No, a disc on the front of a track bike... now that would be sweet.
henry
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:29 am
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
dennyt wrote:
the dreaded ben wrote:
let it be known that there is never an excuse for using disc brakes on road bikes.
there, i have said my peace.
...says the man who rides a singlespeed mountain bike, on the road, with disc brakes...
I wouldn't mind disc brakes on a cyclocross / touring bike. In fact, maybe I'll do it, just to piss you off!
No, a disc on the front of a track bike... now that would be sweet.
dude if someone can modify one of those nowwhat wheels to handle a disc brake i'll ride it all the time. all the time
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
dennyt wrote:
No, a disc on the front of a track bike... now that would be sweet.
ha, you laugh but i was thinking it would be awesome to have a disc brake on the front of my fixie. no rim wear!
the dreaded ben
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:51 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
you're all communists. i bet you voted for george mcgovern too. hippies.
also note that cylcocross and touring bikes are not road bikes.
cyclocross disc bike, ok, mud n' such. touring however is not, it goes against the entire notion of simplicity that is touring. i can elaborate if needed, but really are we going to split hairs here walter?
sekai
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:55 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 1466Location: on the lake
lantius wrote:
dennyt wrote:
No, a disc on the front of a track bike... now that would be sweet.
ha, you laugh but i was thinking it would be awesome to have a disc brake on the front of my fixie. no rim wear!
I found an easy fix to the aesthetically displeasing rim wear;
- take the brake off.
Cross or touring bikes with disc sort of make sense. Standard mounting of the rear disc tabs on the seat stay inhibits rack and fender mounts for a touring bike for example. The Lemond Poprad and Trek Portland moved the tabs to the chainstay to get it out of the way. Granted touring bike usually use bar-con shifters in the rame of simplicity and durability. Disc brakes aren't as such.
lantius
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:05 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
sekai wrote:
lantius wrote:
ha, you laugh but i was thinking it would be awesome to have a disc brake on the front of my fixie. no rim wear!
I found an easy fix to the aesthetically displeasing rim wear;
- take the brake off.
so i would try that but then we would have some even more asethetically displeasing lee wear. seriously, i have no clue how you guys do it. i am maybe 90% not braking but sometimes i just can't pull off enough skidding to slow me down.
sekai
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:09 am
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 1466Location: on the lake
lantius wrote:
so i would try that but then we would have some even more asethetically displeasing lee wear. seriously, i have no clue how you guys do it. i am maybe 90% not braking but sometimes i just can't pull off enough skidding to slow me down.
dont stop, avoid
i'm new to the brakless scene but loving it. i do know that for fast moves in downtown traffic, the brake is nice.
futurenorth
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:14 am
Bed BleederJoined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 839Location: Ballard
I had a test today.
It was called "watch out for that PT CRUISER IT'S GOINGTO HIT YOU!!!!! test."
I saw it, veered right, pulled the wheel to the left, and sucked the pedals up and in. When you ride without brakes, you quickly learn how to move and stop and get out of the way.
Btw, I passed the test and made it to work. Brakeless might not(edit) be the smart way of doing things, but it sure makes biking interesting and fun.
_________________ We have met the enemy, and he is us.
disc brakes have come very far in the past 5 years. Avid actually makes their mechanical brakes in a road bike friendly version (designed for the shorter pull brake levers). Some of the hydraulic brakes are about as set-and-forget as they'll ever be, needing zero care for several years.
The cries of simplicity don't really ring true. Compared to a rim brake, you don't have rim wear, you don't have to worry about the rim ever rubbing even if it's out of true, you'll get the same brake response irrespective of temperature or weather, no matter how heavily loaded the bike (or YOU for that matter) is, you'll never blow out the tire or glaze the pads...
The main things going against discs now are they're generally heavier then rim brakes, generally more expensive, and they've been banned from all forms of road and cross racing as far as I know. And of course, for a lot of riders disc brakes are simply 'necessary', making it a moot point.
I got a 'road bike' I've been brewing up in the back of my mind for a couple of months now. It's gona have disc brakes on it :-)
lantius
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:01 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
sekai wrote:
lantius wrote:
so i would try that but then we would have some even more asethetically displeasing lee wear. seriously, i have no clue how you guys do it. i am maybe 90% not braking but sometimes i just can't pull off enough skidding to slow me down.
dont stop, avoid
i'm new to the brakless scene but loving it. i do know that for fast moves in downtown traffic, the brake is nice.
yeah, i'm more dealing with just going down hills, honestly. i don't know how you guys do it! if there's not a big runout at the bottom - say, a corner - i just can't seem to slow effectively enough without the brake.
i'm still practicing though! i almost wiped out three times on the way to work this morning. i learned about skidding when the bike is leaned over in a soft turn and how, um, fun that can be.
terrydean
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:12 pm
rocker boiJoined: 24 Jul 2005Posts: 1535Location: santa fe, i think
You should never brake in a corner, wether it be in a car or on a bike.. if you need to hit the breaks in a corner, you were going to fast to begin with! That or something suddenly got in your way, like a wall or a cliff or something..
I find hills aren't so bad, you just have to take your time.. my ratio is much too big to tear down hills with no runout at the bottom.. I don't get spinning super quick like someone with a smaller gear, but it's hard to stop that big gear! Also, I find skipping down a hill is much easier to slow down/stop than skidding.
dennyt
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:55 pm
rocket mechanicJoined: 02 Aug 2005Posts: 2708
Yeah, the big advantage for disks, at least for me on my mountain bike, is that your wheel can be 1/4" out of true/round like mine is, and as long as your tire doesn't rub your frame, you're good to go. That's worth as much to me as the stopping power advantage.
Aaron
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:03 pm
Joined: 25 Jul 2005Posts: 4645
Uh, excuse, me but aren't rim brakes just gigantic disc brakes in the first place?
lantius
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:32 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
Aaron wrote:
Uh, excuse, me but aren't rim brakes just gigantic disc brakes in the first place?
well, in the case of hydraulics i know you can set them up with enough force to crush a rim, but it's alot harder to crush a flat disc. so i don't know if i'd call a bicycle rim a disc, at least not until you've crushed it.
Uh, excuse, me but aren't rim brakes just gigantic disc brakes in the first place?
The dynamics with a disc are completely different. From the pressures involved, the temperature involved, the forces involved, the materials involved, etc.
dennyt
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:37 pm
rocket mechanicJoined: 02 Aug 2005Posts: 2708
You, sir, are abusing the word dynamics! The topology of rim brakes and disc brakes are very similar; the forces, velocities, materials, and temperatures are different as you note, but that's only because the disk is a much smaller diameter than the rim. The basic operation, and the forces that cause the motion of the bicycle to change (dynamics), are the same.
The performance enhancement of disks over rim brakes comes from:
1) Less wasted energy due to stiffer systems (less hand-squeeze effort going into flex in the system, more going into force on the pads)
2) Rotors stay cleaner than rims
3) Heat stays away from tires
Additionally, there are benefits of wheel damage tolerance, and the ability to make rims slightly lighter because they don't need braking surfaces (nor will the rim ever wear out from braking).
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1337
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