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derrickito
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:26 am Reply with quote
now with 50 percent more EVIL Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 10566

note from my email, hempfest looking for input about closing down the myrtle edwards trail for a while this summer:

Quote:


On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 8:54 AM, John Davis <john> wrote:

My name is John Davis and I am the Vice President and Chairman of the Board of Directors of Seattle Events a Non-Profit Corporation. We produce Seattle Hempfest every year on the third weekend of August in Myrtle Edwards and Elliot Bay parks. The event covers 1.3 miles between Pier 70 and 92 with a fairly major bicycle route in the parks. We have been in permit negotiations with the City of Seattle and the Port of Seattle about this year’s permit. The City and the Port in particular have expressed concerns about allowing bicycle traffic during set-up and tear-down as has been our policy in previous years. They have asked us for a “Bicycle Plan” for our event this year. We would like to dialog with the bicycle community regarding this and give you a chance to comment on our plan before we bring it in to our next SEC meeting.



Right now it looks like they may exclude bicycles for the entire event including setup and tear down. At the very least require bicyclists to dismount and walk the 1.3 miles. This would stretch from August 11th through the 19th. We are always closed to bicycle traffic on Saturday and Sunday of the event. We are trying to determine if we can find alternate routes and get the information to the community so it is more palatable to bicycle commuters.



We are also taking actions to make our event more bicycle friendly to the event. We are adding significant bicycle parking at the North end of the park. We would also like to get this sort of information out to the bicycle community that may like to attend the event. We would like to increase our attendance that chooses the bicycle commute option.



Thank you for the work you do in making Seattle a bicycle friendly city!



Thanks,

-John

John Davis
Vice President/ Chairman of the Board of Directors
Seattle Events, A Non-Profit Corporation
Producers of Seattle Hempfest
(425)698-5381


seems like hemfest wants to keep the bike lanes open for use as long as possible, seattle wants them to shut it down to riding as long as possible. im giving him this link, feel free to let him know what you think here or in email
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Seattle Hempfest
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:11 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Pier 70 to 92 Seattle Waterfront

We understand that it is a pain in the ass. I hear it from car people when roads are closed for bicycle or foot races not to mention construction. We certainly don’t produce Hempfest to close bicycle routes. It has been, of course suggested that we move to another park. We have reviewed the various parks exhaustively in the past and Myrtle Edwards/ Elliot Bay Park has been the only area that an event of our type and size has been found that it can reasonably exist in. I think the best we can all do is plan for and mitigate any issues.

One thing that we do have is connections with governmental agencies. These agencies value both our event and the bicycling community. In fact, last year we co-branded with the City of Seattle’s “Give Your Car the Summer Off” campaign http://www.seattlecan.org/resources/transportation/trans_home.html . My point being, instead of building resentment we have a chance to work together to find the solution that works best for all. We are not the day to day bike commuters of the park. It is those folks who are the subject matter experts whose input is most valuable to this end.

We are trying to better prepare the bicycle community for what ever comes to pass. We have fought for years to be able to put up signage early to inform bicycle commuters of what to expect. This year we finally got the go ahead to place signage 2 weeks early. We would like them to say more than “The park will be closed to bicycles on”. We would like them to have some sort of information as to alternate routes, etc. on the signage.

Invariably we get people who are irritated because they think that our event’s goals are to get stoners in the park to have a massive smokeout. This is not why we work the hours we do. Our event is not about a party. Our event is to oppose destructive policy. I will not try to make a case here as I understand this is beside the point. If you are curious as to why we do what we do, watch the movie at the following link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1657827965975839596&ei=g_uVSdefMJXYqAO7p4DCDA&q=the+union+the+business+behind+getting+high&hl=en .

Together we can overcome obstacles. I look forward to the discussion.
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SeditiousCanary
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:30 pm Reply with quote
sorry, can't make it! Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 2315 Location: Fremont Troll

Seattle Hempfest wrote:
We are trying to better prepare the bicycle community for what ever comes to pass. We have fought for years to be able to put up signage early to inform bicycle commuters of what to expect. This year we finally got the go ahead to place signage 2 weeks early. We would like them to say more than “The park will be closed to bicycles on”. We would like them to have some sort of information as to alternate routes, etc. on the signage.


Since Hempfest is on Saturday and Sunday, it already does a great deal to reduce the impact to commuters as it is on the weekend, but there are some of us who have non-standard work weeks and hours who it would impact. I think the notion of signs alerting riders to the pending event is great, and suggesting alternate routes is icing on the cake. The only issue I can think of is many people use Mytrl Edwards as a commuting or recreational route to avoid street traffic altogether, and there are no good traffic free alternatives. I think many people would be just fine with alternate routing on streets though. The fact you are trying to warn them and give them the chance to plan around your event is great.
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Matthew
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:36 pm Reply with quote
rookie Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 1173 Location: Sur le nord-ouest des États-Unis, pret de la frontier Québécois

Are there any good routes that bypass Myrtle Edwards that could be car free road candidates?

Well, besides route 99? ;-)

If so, let's push for a weekend car free road that weekend? It's a win-win situation.
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Seattle Hempfest
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:33 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Pier 70 to 92 Seattle Waterfront

I can ask.

It seems to me that Elliot is the answer. It is just a matter of how you get there going South. I would take Amgen pedestrian bridge. There is an elevator on both sides of the street.

Check it out on Google Maps.
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lantius
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:14 am Reply with quote
1337 Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 6705 Location: right over

not to ruin things for hempfest or other close-the-trail users, but i know in portland they found out that because federal transportation funding had been used to help renovate part of the springwater corridor it had to be treated as a public right-of-way with a higher standard for closure. i wonder if that's the case anywhere in the big myrtle edwards remodel?

the best thing you could do is not close the trail. get creative and figure out how to do that, you've got my help. i've done the amgen bridge elliot detour and it's bullshit.
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key lime
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:10 pm Reply with quote
it never happened Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 1142 Location: Wallenfjord

I think what Lee meant to say is that we're big boys and girls and if we need to bike around something for a week we're more likely to just go ahead and deal with it rather than cry our pants off
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tehschkott
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:05 pm Reply with quote
daywalker Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 6108 Location: Hatertown

Why does the city of Seattle/Port want to shut it down? What exactly are their concerns? Why do they foresee this year being different from years in the past? Elliot is not a viable option. Ride it some time.

You've kept it open in the past, I say convince them you can do it this year too - point at recent years as successful examples of your ability to manage the situation, make them point out why the challenges you'll face this year are different from years in the past and address them independently. Tell them you'll put caution and speed limit signs up if you must, but I say make them make their case in explicit terms.

I dunno - I mean personally I'll figure out how to steer clear of the park or something - or go and mow down pothead hippies with the Bicycle Eater - now 100% irony free! (I kid, I kid). But if you can, keep that corridor open. It smells like someones trying to pit cyclists against potheads. For a certain quarter of people, that's a win/win situation right there. If you can defeat that and figure out a way to make them both work in the face of this, well that's the ticket I say.

Best of luck. Please keep it open.

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tehschkott
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:12 pm Reply with quote
daywalker Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 6108 Location: Hatertown

Stupid idea - invite Cascade to put up a (free or discounted) booth at both ends of the park and have them do some sort of advocacy informational cautionary briefing thing, stressing tolerance and integration.

Some of my favorite cyclists are potheads.

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Oldmesenger82
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:06 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Posts: 204 Location: Fremont

Hempfest is cool! We can just ride another route for that one weekend.
I heard some Olympic swimmer will be there......
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the dreaded ben
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:42 am Reply with quote
Grumpy Greeb Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 5329 Location: flavor country

1. hempfest is not cool. it's the legalization movement's equivalent of bike advocacy via critical mass. a velvet "cat in the hat" hat and a fake dope lei in a city that already doesn't give a damn isn't gonna do a fucking thing.
ok, now that that's done moving on.

2. gasworks has plenty of room. period, stop bullshitting yourself. plus it has a nice row of trees to smoke dope in.

3. this is the best detour. it will require talking to the railroad to get them to open the crossing and stationing a crossing guard for safety. you'll note this is not the overpass, but the crossing below it. there should also be a huge sign saying the trail is closed due to the sweatpants clad masses posted at corner of dravus and 20th, and the off ramp of 15th on dravus.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=2565240

4. teach your security guards to knock off the fucking attitude. seriously i live right here and every year it takes me by surprise and i get nothing but fucking attitude from your security. you are the one fucking with our transportation, the least you could do is be polite about it. i swear to god if it happens again i'm gonna shove their bong directly up their ass. sideways.
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langston
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:46 am Reply with quote
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 5547 Location: Columbia City

the dreaded ben wrote:


3. this is the best detour. blah blah blah angry ranting and unfeasible and unlikey solutions



jesus ben, smoke a doob and mellow out. You ride Elliot/15th anyways, don't you?
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the dreaded ben
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:11 pm Reply with quote
Grumpy Greeb Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 5329 Location: flavor country

i ride that trail every weekend, multiple times, and every year for the last 3 years there has been no signage, no detour, and the security were fucks, grade A fucks, antagonist fucks, i had smoked dope and still wanted to punch them in the fucking face kinda fucks.

and that detour isn't unfeasable.
it's a perfectly useable road that is closed off with gate.

also i hate "cat in the hat" hats.
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MyNameIsJeff
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:02 pm Reply with quote
BOOSH! Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 2042 Location: Nearest bar.

the dreaded ben wrote:
also i hate "cat in the hat" hats.


/high-five
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Seattle Hempfest
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:07 am Reply with quote
Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Pier 70 to 92 Seattle Waterfront

Ben- Are you available to teach our staff some lessons on politeness?

We the legalization movement of Seattle do not condone “Cat in the Hat” hats. We do object to the arrest and imprisonment of responsible adults that choose to wear them.

Sorry, I could not resist. I will absolutely check out that detour. The politics of that area is a bitch. The road there is S-Dot, the fence I believe is Louis Dreyfus and the tracks are Burlington Northern. This area, being a roadway and leading into what the city considers a “sensitive area” will require police to patrol and control entry. While the city and Port are making this detour necessary, my gut tells me that they will not provide police to patrol this. Also it would be Port of Seattle Police on one side and City of Seattle on the other. Have you seen this path open?
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derrickito
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:36 am Reply with quote
now with 50 percent more EVIL Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 10566

i'd pay a good chunk of money to watch ben teach security guards a course on being polite.


if that money that i paid was used for ben to arrange the rental of a jack hammer to follow his life long dream of cleaning up the ballard bridge bike path mess, well that would be icing on the cake.
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key lime
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:49 am Reply with quote
it never happened Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 1142 Location: Wallenfjord

the dreaded ben wrote:

also i hate "cat in the hat" hats.


they look almost as stupid as dreads on white boys
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zuvembi
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:58 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Jul 2005 Posts: 942 Location: Little Addis Ababa

derrickito wrote:
if that money that i paid was used for ben to arrange the rental of a jack hammer to follow his life long dream of cleaning up the ballard bridge bike path mess, well that would be icing on the cake.

How much would the rental of such a thing and the purchase of a few bright orange something-that-looks-Joby-like-and-suspiciously-like-a-DOT-worker coveralls be?

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Rogelio
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:00 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Jul 2007 Posts: 3092 Location: Pos, aya, por la Corona-Alta-Madera y que no.

A few strategic changes and we could help stimulate the economy with new jobs in the bridge repair field.

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derrickito
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:46 pm Reply with quote
now with 50 percent more EVIL Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 10566

i can have a bridge repair school diploma printed with bens name on it by the end of the day.
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lantius
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:55 pm Reply with quote
1337 Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 6705 Location: right over

minnesotans sure do know about bridge repair.
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langston
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:19 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 5547 Location: Columbia City

lantius wrote:
minnesotans sure do know about bridge repair.



zing! If only Ben still had dreadlocks, he could head the Hempfest/Cyclist Relations Subcommitee
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jimmythefly
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:55 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 1491

I'd rather just slow down a bit and ride more cautiously than have to detour.

Seattle Hempfest, please, please remind everyone involved that to most of us bicycle commuters, that "path" is basically a road, and morning and evening are rush hour.

Several times over the past couple of years I've had to dodge things that no one would ever do on a regular roadway. Things like golf carts driving head-on in the wrong lane. Things like workers carrying fenceposts stepping directly off the grass and onto the road right in my path. Lots and lots of not looking before stepping out onto the path. Lots of construction materials laying on the path. Lots of cars parking on the path.

I suggest cones or plastic poles and caution tape fencing that runs the entire lenght of the path on both sides. Have a few controlled crossing areas if people want to cross the road. basically contain the road/path to travelling activities, and keep the setting up and staging of materials and parking of vehicles to the grass.
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derrickito
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:05 pm Reply with quote
now with 50 percent more EVIL Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 10566

jimmythefly wrote:
I suggest cones or plastic poles and caution tape fencing that runs the entire lenght of the path on both sides. Have a few controlled crossing areas if people want to cross the road. basically contain the road/path to travelling activities, and keep the setting up and staging of materials and parking of vehicles to the grass.


that's a fantastic idea.
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corpusjuris
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:42 pm Reply with quote
Don't you ever lie to me Joined: 12 May 2008 Posts: 1059 Location: Boat on a hill

derrickito wrote:
jimmythefly wrote:
I suggest cones or plastic poles and caution tape fencing that runs the entire lenght of the path on both sides. Have a few controlled crossing areas if people want to cross the road. basically contain the road/path to travelling activities, and keep the setting up and staging of materials and parking of vehicles to the grass.


that's a fantastic idea.


Seconded. Sounds really simple, effective, and workable. Also, respect to Hempfest organizers for being willing to wade into this wretched hive months early and trying to work it out. Even if it doesn't work, I at least appreciate the effort. Hell, there was a flippant, amusing response to angry ben. That's gotta count for something.

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AndrewW
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:50 am Reply with quote
Tobias Joined: 04 Sep 2008 Posts: 251 Location: Greenlake

derrickito wrote:
jimmythefly wrote:
I suggest cones or plastic poles and caution tape fencing that runs the entire lenght of the path on both sides. Have a few controlled crossing areas if people want to cross the road. basically contain the road/path to travelling activities, and keep the setting up and staging of materials and parking of vehicles to the grass.


that's a fantastic idea.

Third the idea. That's how the inevitable points where non-racers have to cross the course were handled at the races I went to last Fall.

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coupdegrace
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:24 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 168

derrickito wrote:
jimmythefly wrote:
I suggest cones or plastic poles and caution tape fencing that runs the entire lenght of the path on both sides. Have a few controlled crossing areas if people want to cross the road. basically contain the road/path to travelling activities, and keep the setting up and staging of materials and parking of vehicles to the grass.


that's a fantastic idea.


Instead of temporary it could be permanent and provided by the city instead of the producers of Hempfest. It could be a beautified concrete jersey barrier or a post and split rail fence that would always prevent pedestrains from wandering onto the path intended for wheeled travel thru ME park.

Parking along Elliott & 15th Aves from Broad to Dravus Sts could temporarily be suspended during the time necessary before during and after the event, the parking could then be seperated from the travel lane with orange traffic cones or barrels creating a temporary bike path thru this corridor.

Or along Elliott & 15th Aves from Broad to Dravus Sts the hours in the morning and afternoon that the rightmost travel lane is restricted to transit and bicycles only could be increased to 24/7 during the event and the transit/bicycle only lane could also be seperated from the adjacent travel lane using orange traffic cones or barrels.

Or Hempfest could provide samples of product to commuting cyclists who would then not care if they ever got to work! Phelps don't bogart that joint hand it over to Lance.
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tehschkott
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:35 pm Reply with quote
daywalker Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 6108 Location: Hatertown

Fuggit - You know what we need is a raised bicycle viaduct to cut through the park...

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coupdegrace
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:48 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 168

Mayor McFatty is the decider and it will be a tunnel.
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chunts
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 85 Location: Cappy

Quote:

Parking along Elliott & 15th Aves from Broad to Dravus Sts could temporarily be suspended during the time necessary before during and after the event, the parking could then be seperated from the travel lane with orange traffic cones or barrels creating a temporary bike path thru this corridor.

Or along Elliott & 15th Aves from Broad to Dravus Sts the hours in the morning and afternoon that the rightmost travel lane is restricted to transit and bicycles only could be increased to 24/7 during the event and the transit/bicycle only lane could also be seperated from the adjacent travel lane using orange traffic cones or barrels.


I like this. I've actually ridden the stretch of elliott from the amgen overpass to harrison a couple times lately, and what I've found is that its not so bad with caveats. the transit only lane is great where its been coned off to traffic for construction and you can ride in it. it sucks when the construction has blocked the entire lane and you are forced into traffic. assuming construction is done fucking around by august I could see how this could work. on the other hand, you still have to get across the tracks and the solution doesn't do much for northbound riders.
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