interesting how the first comment thread was all
"f'in golddigger wife"
and the second was all
"that poor woman"
Turns out this is the first I ever heard of this story - and did you catch that detail "he joined the Navy and became a nuclear-plant engineer"?
Yeah, I knew him, almost jumped out of my seat this morning when I saw that one. Jeffrey was one of the best guys out of the hundreds I worked with in that shithole.
So anyway
What do you guys think? Is the County liable or is this one of those things that nobody is responsible for?
henry
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:31 pm
somewhat piggishJoined: 05 Aug 2005Posts: 5415Location: on porch with shotgun
His situation clearly sucks. I fully believe that he's lost millions of dollars in earnings potential and gained lots of debt from medical bills.
That said, i think it's absurd to get a multi million dollar settlement after hitting a pothole and taking a highly unfortunate fall. Take some responsibility for yourself dude.
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
henry wrote:
Take some responsibility for yourself dude.
lolwut?
the article wrote:
Totten has lost most of his memories of the nine years he and Leavell have been together, and he doesn't consistently understand he can no longer live with her because he needs round-the-clock supervision.
He has become, she says, "very childlike."
btm
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:24 pm
Joined: 02 Jul 2008Posts: 493Location: Rural Maine
I refrained from posting this as I've been thinking about it a lot since I first saw the story.
An instructor for an MSF Offroad dirt bike class once told me a story about how he was called in to be an expert witness in a case. A dirt bike rider had gone riding on public land that wasn't open to dirt bikes, that is, off any sort of trail. He came up over an embankment too fast and didn't see the pit on the other side. I believe he became paralyzed in the fall.
Apparently the pit was man made many years ago, and they were trying very hard to get my instructor to testify that if there had been a sign there warning about the pit, the rider wouldn't have gotten hurt. He refused to be led down that line. The rider clearly wasn't supposed to be there and should be held responsible for his actions (and not the government). The state settled with the rider out of court anyways.
While I feel for the man and his wife, I disagree with everyone about the settlement. It would have been nice for the city to pay for my medical bills when I broke my wrist, but the burden of keeping every foot of every city street in tip top condition is too high.
Airport Way is a signed and mapped bicycle route, but it's insane traffic during commute hours and no shortage of potholes. You still have to have your wits about you, regardless of the effort that's gone into making a route safer for bicycling.
A driver in Portland recently plead guilty by insanity to charges stemming from a road rage incident with bicycles. The insanity portion comes from the fact that years ago he had a lobotomy. I was struck by a comment by the judge making it absolutely clear to the driver that he is never to drive again because he lacks the capacity to make reasonable choices that must be made at every intersection by a driver.
Traveling is dangerous, life is dangerous. Laws will never protect us from that, as much as many people wish they would. You have to be aware and make safe judgment calls all the time. Sometimes we make the wrong ones, and we learn from them. Sometimes they're tragic. There is no fix for that.
Joined: 15 Aug 2006Posts: 2666Location: No Fun Town, USA
My response: this is what insurance is for: horrible, largely unforeseen accidents. The only question is whose insurance pays and how much.
As a baseline, society should pay for health insurance up to some common standards (i.e., make sure someone doesn't live in pain 24/7, help those who can be helped with reasonably priced physical therapy, etc.) Blue ribbon commissions and boring entities like that get to decide how much.
On top of that, if the county really knew there was a problem here, they should pay more. And someone should get some demerits if they sat on the problem. Conversely, if the rider was a known daredevil (not saying he was), this mitigates the liability of the county or any other outside entity.
It's a cold, cold, world, and individual cases can always pull at your heartstrings, but anecdotes are no way to run a fair society.
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pete jr
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:09 pm
Joined: 13 Dec 2005Posts: 1930Location: balls deepx
brain damage is the thing that scares me the most. i can't think of a worse way to end up than being in a constant state of confusion. you maybe wouldn't know that with how often i get drunk and ride around without a helmet on a bike that could fall apart at any moment, but it's true.
speaking in the general sense, i don't think it's necessarily reasonable to always be able to call "pothole" and get paid out when you wreck, but from reading the article, i'm not sure that this was a pothole. sounds more like a gap in the road- the kind that make your front wheel go all bendy fallapart. i do think there's a case in saying that a road designated as a bike route shouldn't be littered with the kind of gaps which absolutely destroy cyclists. i broke my shoulder by getting caught in one of these while test riding a replacement bike at recycled with skinnier tires than i was used to, and it can be pretty hard to tell, sometimes, whether a crack in the road is a deep one or not.
regardless, i think the outcome of this (the part that came after the permanent brain damage part) is what should happen- those who end up falling victim to largely unforeseeable tragedy don't end up being a burden on the ones closest to them. i don't really think that litigation or fault-finding is the way that we as a society should deal with paying for this kind of stuff, but i do think this is a just outcome. dude's family shouldn't have to carry this for the rest of their lives.
key lime
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:15 pm
it never happenedJoined: 13 Mar 2008Posts: 1142Location: Wallenfjord
gsbarnes wrote:
individual cases can always pull at your heartstrings
This is where it gets me.
Usually I can ignore these cases but I knew this guy and he was really special. He was the guy that knew how to get along with the leadership and still made all the enlisted guys love him. Fair, honest, hard working, smart - a born leader with preternatural maturity. When I got out of the service they wanted me to stay and they said they'd put me up for a huge promotion if I did. When Jeff was getting out they wanted him to stay so bad they went ahead and actually gave him the promotion - he got out anyway. The rest of us enlisted guys knew he was headed for greater things. When this accident happend he was out there, doing great things. I can't imagine that he did anything negligent to cause this wreck.
It's the classic case of "worst story you ever heard". Young smart goodlookin dude with knockout wife and a terrifically promising life ahead of him becomes vegetable.
It's such an American thing, to react with "who can you sue" anytime something goes wrong. But there is this odd potential liability with the County knowing about this pothole.
Also, to Brian, yes Airport way looks like a waffle. But, bikers aren't going to bomb down it at 30-40mph. Is that relevent to the case? I can't imagine bombing down any steep country road and finding a pothole large enough to stop a bike tire dead. That seems like the sort of thing that makes this an exceptional case.
btm
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:37 pm
Joined: 02 Jul 2008Posts: 493Location: Rural Maine
key lime wrote:
Also, to Brian, yes Airport way looks like a waffle. But, bikers aren't going to bomb down it at 30-40mph. Is that relevent to the case? I can't imagine bombing down any steep country road and finding a pothole large enough to stop a bike tire dead. That seems like the sort of thing that makes this an exceptional case.
That article has a picture of the hole, says it's covered up now. May be lies.
Choosing to bomb down a hill at 30-40mph on a bicycle is where your personal choices come in to play. The bicycle may be capable of it, you may be, under perfect circumstances the road may be, but it's risky. Sort of like the argument about newer cars handling better at high (80mph+) speeds on the interstate doesn't mean they should be.
Risky behavior is fine. By virtue of .83 membership we're all in agreement to throw out normative ideas about spending our lives riding around in cages, let alone doing it gang-land style with a backpack full of forties. But when shit hits the fan, or your face hits the pavement after running into a post, you don't blame someone else for the consequences of your choice unless their negligence was the primary mitigating factor. Like a left-hook resulting from not look in the bike lane, or covering a giant hole in the road with a tarp instead of a steel plate.
I certainly can remember killer potholes in Maine on our country roads. There's a lot more frost there, but the roads are actually maintained to a much better quality than I've seen out here. But who knows what bicyclists are going to do on Airport Way? Why not bomb down it? What's stopping them? Traffic? There are times where there's no traffic. It's flat? There are plenty of steep hills and ramps on the east side of it.
I think the case is tragic, but exceptional? It's an accident. Solutions to infrastructure problems must remain within the realm of reality, regardless of how tragic the accidents surrounding them might be.
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it never happenedJoined: 13 Mar 2008Posts: 1142Location: Wallenfjord
I will pretty much always shout loudly in the defense of individual responsibility trumping all. I was trying, because I knew this dude, to play devils advocate. But you're absolutely right, Brian. In fact, I think the fucker deserved it.
However, I'm not about to watch that video of dude after he had his brain wiped out.
I'm just going to say now, in writing, that if I ever experience some irreversible and debilatating brain injury I would like to have an apple stuffed in my mouth and be tied to a stick, roasted over a fire, slathered in pineapple sauce, then sliced up and put on some buns.
I'd rather be delicious than retarded.
lantius
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:17 am
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
the dreaded ben wrote:
henry wrote:
Should i be suing Miles for the cost of my ACL repair because i was on his bike when it happened?
yes!
sorry miles, my liberal culture of entitlement credentials are on the line here.
honestly i should sue miles for the emotional distress of having to read henry's acl blog. lawyer up, bitches!
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it never happened
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