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dennyt
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:38 am Reply with quote
rocket mechanic Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 2708


Psyche!
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laura
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:28 am Reply with quote
Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

Because painting the place where they can't afford to do a curb cut is helpful. *sigh*


Couldn't we just pirate this on our own? How hard it is to cut some concrete?

I kid, i kid.
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mork the delayer
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:45 am Reply with quote
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 548 Location: Providence, RI

laura wrote:
Because painting the place where they can't afford to do a curb cut is helpful. *sigh*


Couldn't we just pirate this on our own? How hard it is to cut some concrete?

I kid, i kid.


Well, is it reinforced? Probably, huh? maybe a sledge and a sawzall? I don't really know if that would work.

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ripper
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:57 am Reply with quote
evilmike Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 640 Location: Capitalist Hill

several years ago, there was quite a bit of talk about doing this ourselves.

nighttime, traffic cones, plus a rented jackhammer? We could be done in a couple of hours and as long as you looked confident and that you were supposed to be there, I bet we could get away with it.

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corpusjuris
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:43 am Reply with quote
Don't you ever lie to me Joined: 12 May 2008 Posts: 1059 Location: Boat on a hill

laura wrote:
I kid, I kid.


Wait, we've all read this right? Wasn't it even posted here a few months back?

Not that I'm suggesting we actually cut the curb, just that, you know, it's possible, just like it's also possible if someone ever did something like this they wouldn't be dumb enough to write about it online...


Last edited by corpusjuris on Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total

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tehschkott
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:53 am Reply with quote
daywalker Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 6108 Location: Hatertown

Wordy, but interesting. I'm almost always down for this sort of stuff.

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joeball
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:46 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Jul 2005 Posts: 6037 Location: Ether

Did I miss something?

Granted I don't ride in Ballard much any more but I recall there being a cut out they put in a few months ago. I don't recall much signage or painting to go with it though. Did they re-fill in that cut out?
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key lime
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:50 am Reply with quote
it never happened Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 1142 Location: Wallenfjord

joeball wrote:
Did I miss something?

Granted I don't ride in Ballard much any more but I recall there being a cut out they put in a few months ago. I don't recall much signage or painting to go with it though. Did they re-fill in that cut out?


i was thinking the same thing
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lantius
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:12 pm Reply with quote
1337 Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 6705 Location: right over

that picture is from 28 july. apparently they didn't end up moving the curb cut.

here's some of the inside scoop from a blog comment by "rick from sdot":

Rick from SDOT wrote:
Just a couple of additional facts to help explain the decision.

SDOT had proposed changes at the south end of the Ballard Bridge with the goal of enhancing bicycle safety. These included moving the curb opening south, installing a green bike lane from the new cut across W Emerson Street, shifting signs to better alert drivers about the crossing, and adding raised markers and pavement markings to discourage high speed turns by motorists. This would have cost $20,000. We asked the public and a group of bike and freight stakeholders to examine the concept.

Based on what we heard from stakeholders and the public, the department decided to leave the cut in its current location and only make small improvements. This decision was endorsed by the Seattle Bike Advisory Board and the Cascade Bicycle Club.

Our traffic records show there have been zero fatalities and zero bike collisions at this curb cut over the past ten years. Bicyclists pause and wait for a break in traffic to enter the roadway and bike stakeholders believe this is an important element for preventing car/bike collisions.

At the request of a local business owner, SDOT also looked at three options for a grade-separated bike crossing solely at W Emerson. The three options, based only on a planning level estimate, ranged in cost from $900,000 to $3.1 million. Given the current finances of the city, these proposed ideas are unfortunately cost prohibitive. More info about SDOT’s original proposal and the final decision can be found here.

great job, cascade. just fantastic advocacy work there.
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the dreaded ben
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:37 pm Reply with quote
Grumpy Greeb Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 5329 Location: flavor country

lantius wrote:
that picture is from 28 july. apparently they didn't end up moving the curb cut.

here's some of the inside scoop from a blog comment by "rick from sdot":

Rick from SDOT wrote:
arghhhppbblst! fart.

great job, cascade. just fantastic advocacy work there.

one of these days i'm gonna lose it and start killing cascade administrators.
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joeball
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:39 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Jul 2005 Posts: 6037 Location: Ether

So you think they should have endorsed the curb cut further south and green paint? Why?
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derrickito
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:46 pm Reply with quote
now with 50 percent more EVIL Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 10566

i can get lots of green paint on very short notice.
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the dreaded ben
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:57 pm Reply with quote
Grumpy Greeb Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 5329 Location: flavor country

joeball wrote:
So you think they should have endorsed the curb cut further south and green paint? Why?

so i don't have to wait 5 minutes to make a 90 degree turn into 45mph traffic that isn't paying attention just to get honked at.

i am well aware of their concern that it will lead to more more right turn collisions, but with the proper amount of signage, turtles, and green mats, drivers and cyclist will pay attention.

and just because you have a lane and sign doesn't mean bikes don't need to pay attention.
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jeff
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:07 pm Reply with quote
SOC pussy Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 4501

As someone who crosses the Fremont bridge daily I agree with Ben.

The green stripe has saved my ass on numerous occasions. I've found drivers are eager to yield to its authority.
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lantius
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:13 pm Reply with quote
1337 Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 6705 Location: right over

agree with ben. the current configuration requires you to convince traffic continuing straight on 15th to come to a complete stop for you. moving the curb cut around the corner means you have to look out for cars turning right (like usual) but makes it easier to merge into the traffic on 15th.

it seems like the configuration at the south end of the fremont bridge has been effective - i cross it daily and i've found that the huge yield-to-bikes signs and green lane combined with my glower are enough to get folks slowing down.

the cbc pit bull says that at the last meeting the consensus was to work for grade separated. apparently sdot took that as an all-or-nothing approach...
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limpyweta
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:17 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 740 Location: North Beach

Ben has actually had to wait five minutes there?
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the dreaded ben
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Grumpy Greeb Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 5329 Location: flavor country

i don't own a watch.
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laura
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:40 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 1050 Location: wherever the dance party is

lantius wrote:
it seems like the configuration at the south end of the fremont bridge has been effective - i cross it daily and i've found that the huge yield-to-bikes signs and green lane combined with my glower are enough to get folks slowing down.


+1

I was JUST talking about that this morning on the way into work. It wasn't all roses and and rainbows and unicorns in the beginning, but it's pretty darn standard now and worth repeating in other places in the city.
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joeball
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:19 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Jul 2005 Posts: 6037 Location: Ether

The Fremont bridge solution now is great. A little dicey at first but I think cars and riders have figured it out.

Ballard bridge is not an identical situation:
Cars are traveling at least 10-15 mph faster.
Bikes/Peds are not on a wide elevated pathway.
The sight lines for cars are good but cyclists won't see what is approaching from behind if they are shooting for a hole in a wall that is running parallel to their direction of travel.

Looking at that initial painting again I see that the alignment of the cut would still likely require bikes to stop and look before entering roadway, which I think is a more conservative and safer approach even if it is not 'fair' that the bicyclist has to yield to a car that is crossing their path. So in some ways I don't know why Cascade poopoo'd the idea.

The Fremont solution was part of a bigger reworking, the Ballard location needs this too it just won't be cheap. Any temporary solution can't increase the risk of a car/bike collision. Unfortunately engineers have to design for the lowest common denominator.
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dennyt
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:52 pm Reply with quote
rocket mechanic Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 2708

joeball wrote:
Did I miss something?

Granted I don't ride in Ballard much any more but I recall there being a cut out they put in a few months ago. I don't recall much signage or painting to go with it though. Did they re-fill in that cut out?


The cut at the North end of the bridge (Southbound) is still there, and very handy. The old high curbs were a nasty slalom, especially with panniers full of groceries.
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