Joined: 21 Dec 2007Posts: 31Location: formerly in the dirty dirty southeast
Heyhey, tomorrow (thursday) 94.9 on your FM dial is having a talk about cars and bikes. New tough laws are being proposed. We expect there to be some fireworks. Please tune in, or click a link or something.
Joined: 13 Dec 2005Posts: 1930Location: balls deepx
lemme jump on with the first "that is a stupid law." cars honk just fine as it is, i don't think we need to encourage them. the obligation to remain as close to the curb as possible is also terrible- you need to be able to give yourself recovery room for when you're not given your space. plus, given how the cops deal with bikes already, i know which side of this law will get enforcement. "sure, he creamed you, but were you as close to the curb as possible? guess you're even."
obligation to maintain clear space is great, but given the option of take it or leave it as it's spelled out in the above PI article, i think on balance i'd leave it.
ksep
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:04 am
Joined: 27 Jan 2007Posts: 1879Location: Westlake
What are you talking about, Pete?
the bill in pdf format page 2 lines 15-16 wrote:
ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is judged reasonably safe by the bicyclist
So fuck the driver, fuck the cops, if it doesn't seem safe to you because of the door zone, broken glass, storm drains, etc. you don't have to be over there. And it actually goes on to say that...
the bill wrote:
For the purposes of this section, "safe" includes a reasonable space of pavement on either side of the bicyclist, a position so as to be seen and safe from opening vehicle doors and to avoid being passed at less than a safe distance, and a surface that is free from hazards, pavement defects, and objects or materials, whether fixed or moveable, that may obstruct travel, cause a collision or fall, or damage the bicycle.
Near as I can tell, this bill would be a big fat Oprah titties win for cyclists.
_________________ -Kevin
btm
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:20 am
Joined: 02 Jul 2008Posts: 493Location: Rural Maine
abamfici's internet research of the future said wrote:
ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is judged reasonably safe by the bicyclist
FWIW, state law already says this anyway.
RCW 46.61.770 wrote:
Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place shall ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is safe...
I've heard of lone bicyclists getting ticketed for not yielding the lane _completely_ to vehicles. The problem with all of this is you usually fight it in traffic court, which basically goes:
You: I was riding in such a manner as to avoid getting murdered.
Judge: I HATE BIKES. FUCK YOU. DIE IN A FIRE.
*Case Closed*
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
they should make it illegal for cyclists to run stop signs all the time!!!!! and they ougha arrest that bryan mclellan figure and his critical asssholes!!!!
(a preview of the dialogue to come)
seriously, that bill sucks. mandatory honking and requires riding on the shoulder and in the bike lane? fuck that, this isn't portland. meanwhile, the whole "judged by the rider" is ridiculous. the fifth amendment means you'd never claim otherwise when you got pulled over.
bicyclejesus
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:06 am
Joined: 31 Oct 2007Posts: 57Location: bicycle heaven
greetings from bicycle future, where everything is strictly supervised and
alcohol has to be converted from water.
This seems like an important program to capture before the rapture, so does anyone have Ross Reynolds personal contact info so I might obtain a recording of noons broadcast for further scrutinizing and nonsensicalness ?
limpyweta
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:17 am
Joined: 23 Sep 2008Posts: 740Location: North Beach
lantius wrote:
seriously, that bill sucks. mandatory honking and requires riding on the shoulder and in the bike lane?
the latter is subject to the exception of the first subsection, but I'm no lawyer.
I don't think there would be a total fuckwad cop who would ticket a driver who can easily not hit a cyclist in the situation for not honking or yelling "it's called Darwin's writings, have you heard of them?".
Last edited by limpyweta on Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:06 am; edited 2 times in total _________________ Alec
dennyt
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:27 am
rocket mechanicJoined: 02 Aug 2005Posts: 2708
lantius wrote:
mandatory honking
Really?
the bill, lines 22-23 wrote:
when necessary to avoid an imminent or likely collision
So, not every time a cyclist is passed.
lantius wrote:
requires riding on the shoulder and in the bike lane?
Only when judged safe, which includes
Quote:
free from hazards, pavement defects, and objects or materials, whether fixed or moveable, that may obstruct travel, cause a collision or fall, or damage the bicycle.
I think this means you don't have to ride on the shoulder if it's covered in glass or gravel.
I think this bill is totally reasonable. While it may not be "bicycles own the streets", I see it as a good clarification that should help both sides.
Andrew_Squirrel
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:23 am
Joined: 01 Mar 2010Posts: 2098Location: Greenwood
bicyclejesus wrote:
greetings from bicycle future, where everything is strictly supervised and
alcohol has to be converted from water.
This seems like an important program to capture before the rapture, so does anyone have Ross Reynolds personal contact info so I might obtain a recording of noons broadcast for further scrutinizing and nonsensicalness ?
if you scroll back up to the top of this thread, revphil linked to the KUOW website and you can download it directly from there, I think the link is even right below the picture on the page.
of course, they probably won't post it until sometime in the afternoon today or tomorrow since that stuff usually takes a couple hours to produce and release to MP3 for the masses
derrickito
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:10 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
i hear something that doesn't have anything to do with bikes. did i miss it in the previous 10 minutes?
derrickito
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:21 pm
now with 50 percent more EVILJoined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 10566
just started now
derrickito
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:40 pm
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that was retarded.
jeff
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:45 pm
SOC pussyJoined: 05 May 2006Posts: 4501
Missed all of it, but didn't care anyway.
I'm more interested in Dave Meinert's plan to allow alcohol to be served in strip clubs.
lantius
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:45 pm
1337Joined: 22 Jul 2005Posts: 6705Location: right over
dennyt wrote:
lantius wrote:
mandatory honking
Really?
i guess i mean 'sucks' in the sense that it doesn't seem to actually say much of anything.
was there some rash of cars that didn't honk when they were about to run you over? is it somehow useful to codify that as law? and as far as the question of where people should ride in the road, if i get pulled over by the police for "Drive On Road (Bicycle)" am i really going to say "oh yeah, i shouldn't be riding in the lane, the shoulder here is quite safe. please to be giving me a ticket now."
i mean, i don't think it should be fought against or anything, but i'm not seeing the full of win that's supposedly in here.
Kyleen
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:47 pm
might have vagina, unconfirmedJoined: 06 Jan 2010Posts: 948Location: Space pirate ship manned by dinosaurs
Agreed, it was like listening to a bunch of internet commenters. Now they're talking about drinking in strip clubs though. It's like they know their target audience or something.
revphil
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:53 pm
Joined: 21 Dec 2007Posts: 31Location: formerly in the dirty dirty southeast
yeah, somehow I missed it too.
and we were there!
footage of in studio hijinks to be revealed sometime in 2011
_________________ revphil treats objects like women, or so i am told.
revphil
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:22 pm
Joined: 21 Dec 2007Posts: 31Location: formerly in the dirty dirty southeast
while you were out debating the wonktastic aspects of transportation law terry and i decided to go hang out with some famous people.
next time we plan to film a version of Cribs from Ross Reynolds home
_________________ revphil treats objects like women, or so i am told.
Mike
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:07 pm
Joined: 28 Jun 2007Posts: 22Location: pill hill
One thing that concerns me looking at the bill is this new language: "a person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at speeds less than the legal and normal flow of traffic shall, when traffic is present, make use of a paved shoulder of the roadway or any specially designated bicycle lane, if such a lane exists, and such use is reasonably judged safe by the bicyclist." First, except where exceptional circumstances exist, it requires cyclists to ride in bike lanes where they exist. That was not the law before. And, I wonder if it makes Critical Mass, and other group rides that slow traffic, explicitly unlawful. Worth pressing the BAW about, since they've given their support to the bill.
the dreaded ben
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:33 am
Grumpy GreebJoined: 20 Aug 2005Posts: 5329Location: flavor country
i want to bury ross reynolds for nothing other than his voice.
jimmythefly
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:16 am
Joined: 10 Jan 2007Posts: 1491
Mike wrote:
One thing that concerns me looking at the bill is this new language: "a person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at speeds less than the legal and normal flow of traffic shall, when traffic is present, make use of a paved shoulder of the roadway or any specially designated bicycle lane, if such a lane exists, and such use is reasonably judged safe by the bicyclist." First, except where exceptional circumstances exist, it requires cyclists to ride in bike lanes where they exist. That was not the law before. And, I wonder if it makes Critical Mass, and other group rides that slow traffic, explicitly unlawful. Worth pressing the BAW about, since they've given their support to the bill.
It'll probably need to get tested in court, but I would argue that where bicycles outnumber cars, the bicycles are themselves the "traffic", and as such the speed they are travelling at is therefore the normal. Also, you're allowed to be out in the lane when passing another cyclist, and with a large group ride there is a constant flow of cyclists passing each other.
Mike
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:23 am
Joined: 28 Jun 2007Posts: 22Location: pill hill
Leave nothing but his thumb sticking out of the dirt! His grave could be a public prostate stimulation park.
But(t), I'm still stuck on the bill: the language I quoted also seems to ban "taking a lane" if there's traffic and a clean shoulder (not that I've ever seen one of those). This bill seems to give up rights, while gaining little. I don't get why BAW supports it. I also don't see how we went from talking about "vulnerable users" last year to talking about "mutual responsibility" in this bill. Nobody really believes cars and bikes are equal on the roads. Seems like we're a long way from being able to reasonably talk about mutual responsibility. The fact that the cops like this bill should be a tip off that something's wrong. In my opinion.
dennyt
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:03 pm
rocket mechanicJoined: 02 Aug 2005Posts: 2708
We're not quite keeping up with San Francisco:
Kyleen
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:04 pm
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now with 50 percent more EVIL
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