Drivers ignoring new 2nd Ave bicycle infrastructure Anything and everything .83 Seattle

[ride bikes]

[DOUG.]

[jeff]

[mailemae]

[J_Dada]

[TooTall]

[caustic meatloaf]

[MyNameIsJeff]

[langston]

[Andrew_Squirrel]

[Drain]

[bobhall]

[tehschkott]

[tehschkott]

The only way 2nd is ever going to be "safe" is if they move that bike lane to the west side of the street. People naturally hesitate before turning down a hill - and they naturally gun it before going up a hill. Additionally, bikes are expected to be on the right, not on the left.

Good design accounts for human nature.

[Eric_s]

[jeff]

[jeff]

[joeball]

[DOUG.]

[karadactyl]

[caustic meatloaf]

[mailemae]

[Andrew_Squirrel]

[Drain]

[therezdawg]

Biggest thing to me: can it possible be worse than the old setup? I don't think so. That said, will I use it all the time? No. Even if I was riding southbound on 2nd, I would sometimes choose the shared travel lanes because they present no turning conflicts whatsoever and I'm totally comfortable riding in traffic. And pretty much all of you on here are too. And luckily, the law still allows us to do that. Drivers will probably still yell "get in the bike lane" but assholes abound and there's little to be done about it regardless.

That said, would you expect a friend who was new to urban cycling to feel comfortable cruising down 2nd among fast-moving cars? Cuz they probably wouldn't be. They'd probably feel more comfortable riding in the cycletrack because of the separation and it's up to us (their friend who is encouraging them to get into cycling) to explain that they should be careful as they approach intersections and further (once they're ready) they should consider taking the lane.

In terms of the signal heads, Chicago definitely did it and I'm hopeful SDOT will come around. I also sent a comment to SDOT about the parking lane issue and recommended painting down some parking Ts to indicate it's a multi-purpose lane (yeah, shit is confusing). One nice thing is that this is officially an experimental project so SDOT has much more flexibility to change things up and if everyone's f'ing hates it by the end of 1 year they can just bag the whole thing.

Sorry for the dictionary of nerdery, I work in this sorta stuff and could nerd out f'days. And no, I don't work for SDOT.

[mailemae]

lol whatever! it was fun. but yes to basically everything @therezdawg sez.

[rory]

Cycle track design is relatively new, so there is no clear cut winner yet. one thing we should remember is since this is new, we have to make sure we have laws in place to correspond to the facility. Currently, a vehicle has to stop for a crosswalk at an intersection, however, there is no law for cycletracks/bike lanes at intersections as far as I can tell. If you think you are going to be hit at an intersection then the law should say something about vehicles not be allowed to do that, right?

for instance an email with my local representative:
Dear rory--

Thanks for your message and for alerting me to this issue. I asked Senate Transportation Committee staff to do some research into this area and the short answer is that you are correct: the law is not clear. I've attached the staff response to my question below.

I agree with you that the correct policy would be for vehicles to come to a complete stop at the cycle track before crossing it (including by making a turn) and have asked for a bill to be drafted to that effect. Since we have adjourned for the year, it will not be considered until the 2015 session.

Thanks, Jamie

From: Johnson, Kim
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 9:49 AM
To: Pedersen, Sen. Jamie
Cc: Buck, Katy
Subject: RE: Constituent RR: RCW clarification for cycle tracks at intersections

Senator,

I looked at both RCW 46.61.235 and 46.61.240 which cover the duties of both vehicle operators and bicyclists/pedestrians in both marked and unmarked crosswalks. As you've identified, I am not entirely certain whether a "cycle track" fits in the definition of a crosswalk.

Typically the laws and regulations governing the use of street signs and traffic control devices for state and local governments can be found in the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD). Under Title 47 RCW the Washington State Department of Transportation periodically adopts the MUTCD, published by the Federal Highway Safety Administration. Interestingly, the City of Seattle's website on cycle tracks cites to using the National Association of City Transportation Officials (NACTO) Urban Bikeway Design Guide in developing the cycle tracks. I believe that the MTUCD is the controlling authority, and the NACTO are based on MUTCD with enhancements or other recommendations where the MUTCD is inapplicable.

One city transportation official I spoke to indicated cycle tracks are treated the same as regular bike lane, which would mean the MUTCD applies. However according to the Federal Highways Administration website on bicycle facilities and the application of the MUTCD, a cycle track is not a traffic control device so there is no MUTCD restriction on its use.

As I am getting conflicting information I was hoping to get to spend a little more time trying to figure out a better answer for you and your constituent. I've left a message for a traffic engineer in the multimodal section of Seattle's Transportation Department. I also have a call into the state Traffic Engineer at WSDOT. Cycle tracks are a relatively new type of bike facility in the state and I apologize for not being able to answer your question in a timelier manner.

I will keep working on it and send you an update when I get more information.


Kim Johnson
Staff Counsel
Senate Transportation Committee
316 John A. Cherberg Building
Olympia, WA 98504
(360) 786-7472
johnson.kim@leg.wa.gov

Senator Jamie Pedersen
43rd Legislative District
jamie.pedersen@leg.wa.gov
Olympia Office
226 John A. Cherberg Building
P.O. Box 40643
Olympia, WA 98504-0643
(360) 786-7628
District Office
5031 University Way NE, #107
Seattle, WA 98105-4341
(206) 729-3206
Legislative assistant
Katy Buck
Buck.Katy@leg.wa.gov
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[rory]

[donavanm]

[karadactyl]

[therezdawg]

[limpyweta]

[noonan]

[tehschkott]

[tehschkott]

[karadactyl]

[Andrew_Squirrel]

[tehschkott]

[tehschkott]

[TooTall]